Wed, May 23, 2012, 12:39 AM EDT - U.S. Markets open in 8 hrs 51 mins

Apple (AAPL) & Gold (GLD): “Most Crowded Trades” Says Kass

There is no shortage of strategists and investors who will tell you that stocks are cheap right now. While factually true and historically accurate, like many things in life, there's a lot more to the story than just the headline.

For Doug Kass, President and Founder of Seabreeze Partners, a truer headline would read, "stocks are theoretically cheap." It is a seemingly small quantification but nonetheless one that acknowledges the historically low price-to-earnings ratio is currently low for a reason. And according to Kass, that reason is a swirl of domestic, global, economic, and political headwinds.

"You have to respect the advance and be mindful that the market has limited upside opportunity," Kass says in the attached video. "There are so many structural issues that face our domestic economy; the Eurozone, issues about whether China is going to have a hard or soft landing, they all impact valuations."

Kass' Most Crowded Trades

This, from the man who a week ago wrote that the "most crowded trade" was being out of the market, right before a flood of money came rushing back in, fueling the market's current rally. Interestingly, on Tuesday Kass wrote on Twitter that he was cutting his long exposure to the stock market to 50% from 70%, in a move of classic contrarianism.

This week Kass told an audience at the Big Picture Conference at the New York Athletic Club that the most crowded trades are Apple (AAPL) and Gold (GLD). He said gold is a lot like religion, "either you believe in God or you're an atheist. The same applies to gold." He believes that gold prices are entirely sentiment driven, and therefore, impossible for him to value.

As for technical analysis, Kass calls that "voodoo" and doesn't buy into market seasonality theories like a year-end Santa Claus rally or "sell in May and go away." Instead, he is trying to assess how much of a reduction to 2012 earnings estimates has already been digested by the market. He's also waiting for the financial sector to "awaken from the dead," like they did in 2009, to suggest a real turnaround in the markets.

The Surprising Sector Kass Likes Now

"It seems to me the lifeblood of our economy is our financial companies, particularly our money center banks. Without them, it's hard to have confidence about the future," Kass says. Even though he calls banks "the pinatas of populism," he's excited about another financial sub-industry: Insurance companies.

"People want guaranteed products," Kass says. "If you look at companies like Prudential (PRU) and MetLife (MET) and Hartford (HIG) and Lincoln National (LNC) their annuity business is going great guns. MetLife's annuity sales were up 40% in the 2nd quarter."

Along that line, Kass admits it's "very hard to form contrarian views right now" since stocks are all moving together in the same direction. So rather than buying and holding, he says people have turned to opportunistically trading to achieve superior returns, a change that has unfortunately brought with it its own set of problems, particularly volatility.

Breakout Asks

Do you think Facebook (FB) will end this year above or below its IPO price of $38 a share?

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46 comments

  • SEAL of Approval  •  5 months ago
    allen said perfectly, my apple option crack over 8200+% so the advise i would suggest is play on fear of other small investors cause listening to things like this keeps the small investors were their at....In the corner
  • Allen  •  7 months ago
    I'm up exactly 300% on my Apple investment as of this morning. Ignoring people like this and hanging through the tough times is what has created that success. Football , Apple (pie) and Ford. haha
  • El Bolsaero de Te  •  7 months ago
    "It seems to me the lifeblood of our economy is our financial companies," Doug Kass said to himself after telling the passengers of the Titanic that he would look after their money. Later, after watching the ship disappear over the horizon, Doug looked forward to the chicken and wine dinner he had prepared for his peers. "Now to find a coq to bleed, he thought, "so I can make the rich blood and cognac sauce that my peers admire."
  • Robert W  •  7 months ago
    I have to agree about the uptick in annuity activity, in response to market crashes and retirement trends.
  • CRASHMAN  •  7 months ago
    Gee Doug, what about government paper that pays nearly nothing? At least you admit that you do not understand gold or how to value it. It is clear that you really do not much care to comment about it since you lack any knowledge of how to value it. Leave it to the silly folks at yahoo to push for any answer that will reflect poorly on gold no matter how much the repondent admits a lack of understanding about the subject. If yahoo really wanted to discuss gold with someone who knows about it I could direct them to people who actually bought it at $300 an ounce and recommended that others do the same. Of course, yahoo really does not want informed views on precious metals, the US economy or the idiotic actions of the US government.
  • William O  •  7 months ago
    I have no idea what this jerk is saying.
  • gym  •  7 months ago
    well this may sound funny but I rather keep what I have now..this is the market- you get in at the wrong time and hope and pray it goes back to your original investment. well if I hang on to the original investment I know EXACTLY what I have and DO NOT have to wait for some #$%$ ceo to bring the company back to lifeit's also a know fact that stocks have not risen from 2001-2011 just look at the charts
  • Fungus  •  7 months ago
    In an era of financial disasters we should put our money on the sector that is being worst hit by those disasters and stay out of the sector that is benefiting?

    Don't think so! I think I'll pass on being roadkill!
  • Ryan  •  7 months ago
    Cutting his equity outlook after a quick rally is kass' way of saving face following his famous "crowded trade" quote...there will definatelly be a pullback in the next week and his downgrade will cause him to say I told you so...he's also awaiting for financials to turn around to spark a real uptick in the market/economy...thank god we have kass/nostradamus to reference when the stock market will return to normalcy
  • guaps  •  7 months ago
    Right you are Kass, crowded, thats why they're up. Be kind of odd if they were at all time highs and only two guys owned them. Do you get paid for that kind of observation?
  • webtraveller  •  7 months ago
    "flood of money came rushing back in"

    Is there anything to back that comment? With more than 70% of trades being HFT, and with the low volumes of late I would bet that most of the trades are HFT, I doubt there really is a flood of money that went back into the markets. Markets are looking more and more like a Ponzi given how bad data is being dismissed so easily with the really bad news from Europe still to come ie. the Greece default, to see which banks are going to take the hit.
    • Daniel 7 months ago
      There's got to be. If there's no trader, HFT won't exist. Programmed HFTs rely on the spread between the bid and ask, and their algorithms are similar. So they won't move the market is there's no human trader. That's why when volume is low, those trading firms are actually losing money.
    • Joe Black 7 months ago
      Good point.
  • james  •  7 months ago
    For Kass not to realize that gold purchases are a response to the irresponsible manipulation of fiat currancies by governments, and banks is amazing. And the money printing that is probably going to take place in the EU in order to recapitalize the banks is the current fear driving gold. I recommented he tune in to GATA.
    • picman1 7 months ago
      Right on James. Gold and silver prices react directly as a response to the world economy, the ridiculous printing of fiat currency and the inevitable crash of the dollar. Gold and silver, IMO are the two greatest opportunities in the stock market now and perhaps in the past 50years.
    • Thomas George 7 months ago
      How can you say that he does not realize that? He just said that it is impossile for him to value it -- because there are two camps; one, willing to buy gold at any price, and the other, not willing to buy at any price -- akin to the believer and the athiest. A man is entitled to his opinion, is he not?
  • jose  •  7 months ago
    this clown is back. he has yet to right 1 times. hahahaha what a joke...the most crowded trade is the bond market and the dollar market...clown..
  • A Yahoo! User  •  7 months ago
    Matt that was your best segment ever. Kass is smart, may be wrong, but definitely has a mellow style....nice deviation from so many other louder and less well spoken authorities.
    • A Yahoo! User 7 months ago
      its easy to find out how successful seabreeze has been or hasnt been. doug has his days both ways
  • Mep  •  7 months ago
    this guy said gold would correct when it was at 1250 back down to 1000 he's been very wrong...this guys only pick was when the s&p hit 600's and everyone in there mother new that was a great buying opportunity. Appl and Gld will continue to go higher it's crowded because it's in the right place to be. Gold will break 2k and appl will see 500 very quick. This guy can't pick his nose.
    • C 7 months ago
      You may be right, for a time--and so will he. There's no reason gold can't fall below 1000. Once all the made money is made--all you long gold investors will get burned. All the sophisticated money is leaving whilst gold still holds some shine. Look at the history of central banks' buying of gold and look what happens after. A crash is inevitable as gold is a highly volatile commodity with limited industrial use and it is not a currency in the practical sense. Faith supports all asset prices, and markets are fickle. Don't get caught holding the bag. If you bought below 1000, you were smart, after that--you're just a lemming. I believe it will be below 1500 by december, and will fall hard after q4 earnings season. That's just my humble projection. Anyone could be wrong, you and me both, my friend.
    • Don 7 months ago
      Well actually..C... Central Banks have been BUYING gold for the past couple of 3 years in varying quantities.

      C'mon in the waters fine....you might even make a few "C"-notes in the process...:)
  • Lucinda  •  7 months ago
    worst than that,i think the world is a over crowded trade.
  • Patrick Henry  •  7 months ago
    I didn't know he started Febreze. That should be useful
  • Gerald  •  7 months ago
    kass is very naive. he needs to read a bit of history. at a trailing p/e of 13, stocks are not cheap. they are only a little bit undervalued.
    nesto, next time you need to find an analyst who knows what they are talking about.
  • one_voice_novice  •  7 months ago
    Nice interview Matt, good job. I always try to learn something new from what I read or watch.
    What are the takeaways from this story?

    The idea annuity companies are better positioned than asset managers may be worth further investigation - if you believe in stock selection (I don't)

    The gold / God comparison is not dumb as Novatad suggests. It is a wonderfully simple comparison that accurately and concisely frames the debate on gold.
  • A Yahoo! User  •  7 months ago
    But "sell in May" worked great this year. The problem with gold and the flight to bonds is that these asset managers can't make much of a living off the fees on these investments. Also the "crowded trades" don't require an asset manager's expertise. Suggest these guys find a nice flash trading computer to advise.

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