Wed, May 23, 2012, 12:54 AM EDT - U.S. Markets open in 8 hrs 36 mins

Buy and Hold Is Dead: Simon Baker

"Don't do something, stand there!" said investing legend Jack Bogle in interviews last week. The founder of The Vanguard Group is advising something resembling catatonia as much as calm; the old buy & hold investing philosophy.

"Bogle should be in the Hall Fame, not still playing the game," says hedge fund manager Simon Baker, the CEO of Baker Ave and a Friend of Breakout. The two comments define both sides of the perennial investing debate: "Can you time the market?"

Baker says yes, arguing that buy & hold is a relic of a bygone era when the economy was stable and consistent growth was the norm. Make no mistake, Baker isn't telling investors to lunge in and out of the market at the slightest provocation, merely that avoiding "2008 type markets" is obviously high on the list of pathways to investment success. That's fine in retrospect, but who could have seen this summer meltdown coming and how would someone have any idea when or if to get back into stocks?

Well, plenty of folks on Breakout saw it coming, including Baker himself during his May appearance when he suggested viewers exit Chinese stocks ASAP, noting that the fundamental and momentum landscape was worsening. Since that call, the widely-followed iShares China FXI index (FXI) is down some 18%, badly lagging the S&P500 as well as the NASDAQ.

Ok, fine, Baker has been good in his Breakout appearances and has a great long-term results. So what's he saying about the here and now?

Baker buys tumbling markets, but not indiscriminately. Obviously all tumbles are created different, though they share the characteristic of being horrifying times to buy, a point Baker acknowledges freely. "It's complete madness out there," he says. That being the case, Simon takes the emotion out of the decision making process by using what he calls the "Blue Buy" indicator. Blue Buys are triggered when 90% of the basket of 4,000 stocks his firm follows are below their 15-week moving average, a rare situation indeed.

The Blue Buy indicator has only been triggered six times over the last 25-years, the last being in July of 2002. In these six times, the NASDAQ is up 90% and the S&P 37% in less than two-years, on average. "We're not there yet," says Simon, but it may be time to get your checkbooks ready. This despite the fact that he agrees with my long-held belief that a recession has already begun.

The last eleven recessions have seen drops of 26% from peak to trough. Last week's S&P 500 1,100 "Fed Bottom" represented a 14.5% decline, about 60 S&P500 points from the average recession drop. Not quite close enough but getting there for Baker, who has remained largely in cash since June 13.

So we aren't quite in Blue Buy mode and we're not in a recession bottom, but Baker is patient and eagerly waiting. "You have to be dynamic in this market," notes the dapper Brit. That doesn't mean hyper trading, it means disciplined buy, sell and holding. It may not be for you but it's been working for Baker and Breakout viewers who have listened to him thus far.

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117 comments

  • Mister Z  •  9 months ago
    If buy and hold is dead, then investing is dead too.
    How long do you hold stocks??
    2 years.? 2 weeks? 2 hours??
    Investors lose again....sad.
    • ed Adam 9 months ago
      .002 microseconds
    • mike 9 months ago
      I would tend to disagree with you. Invest and forget is dead. If you're investing nowdays you best be paying attention, but there's still money to be made. Even by non-profesional investors. Use patients, stop-losses, and as much information as you can gather.
    • TBTF 9 months ago
      @ Mike - Stop orders are a broker's/high-frequency trader's dream.Stop orders are found and smashed through all throughout most markets I've witnessed.
  • mook  •  9 months ago
    Did he just say buy low sell high WOW! Thanks!
    • A Yahoo! User 9 months ago
      You can only see the hi / low from a history chart, can some one make me a future chart to show me the LOW BUY POINT and the SELL HIGH POINT for my successful investment strategy. (ha,ha,ha,)
    • A Yahoo! User 9 months ago
      Stay in CASH, make a list of high paying utility dividend stock, at to-days prices AT&T (T) VERIZEN (vz) United Illuminating Holdings Company (UIL) all pay 5.5% dividend, when a big dip comes jump in and buy, at the lower price the dividend could be 6.5% and hold for permanent dividends. your may have to wait for the next finiancial contrived crisis to jump in, Go to the stock 1,2,3,and 5 year charts to see what I mean. You will get the idea. GOOD INVESTING.
    • cat_bow 9 months ago
      That was an insightful piece of brilliance on his part.
  • HTIBRW.com  •  9 months ago
    Everytime I hear that buy & hold is dead is exactly when its not. Coincidentally, this guy makes money by selling you on the premise that he can in fact beat the S&P 500 which most cannot with any regularity.
    • Macke 9 months ago
      Which is both true and why people who can beat the S&P get paid so nicely for doing so.

      - Macke
  • P  •  9 months ago
    Wow, a "buy an hold is dead" article right after a market decline and unusual volotility.

    Never seen that before. How creative.
  • Disgusted consumer!  •  9 months ago
    Dividends are paying more than the banks!!!
  • Ken  •  9 months ago
    Buy and hold is alive and well as long as you don't freak out about every market move and invest in blue chip dividend stocks. My portfolio still looks great in spite of the recent market volatility. I see all this as buying opportunity...for more dividend stocks!
  • Pulla  •  9 months ago
    He is wrong! You cannot buy and forget but you can sure buy and hold!!
    • mike 9 months ago
      agree 100%. Hold does not mean ignore. It means attentively, responsibly hold.
    • Macke 9 months ago
      And attentively holding means selling at the right price or if the circumstances change. Which means... gulp... trading.

      - Macke
    • mike 9 months ago
      It seems that the disagreement here is a semantical one. Since I hate arguments on semantics I'll just take my lumps and admit to... gulp... trading stocks.
  • LetsGoCaps  •  9 months ago
    There's nothing wrong with a buy and hold approach. The risk is in confusing "buy and hold" with "buy and forget".
  • blank  •  9 months ago
    BOGLE = BRILLIANT
    BAKER = JERKOFF

    HE TIMED IT RIGHT HERE AND NOW HE'S TELLING EVERYONE TO DO SO. I DONT THINK SO BAKER. BOGLE PUSHES LOW COST INDEX FUNDS. THATS THE WAY TO GO. DONT PAY THESE FINANCIAL FOOLS.
    • Macke 9 months ago
      Bogle got pretty rich pushing those low cost index funds. It's remarkable how beloved he became pocketing tiny portions of everyone's investments.

      Simon isn't selling you anything. Bogle is.

      - macke
  • jimf  •  9 months ago
    i pray for his clients. lol!!!
  • Shawn  •  9 months ago
    The fundamental problem with all these market timers is that they're wrong about the same number of times they're right, and most of these indicators are created after-the-fact. Death Cross, Blue Buy, Cup and Handle, Purple Bunny, Green Ninja Squash Line - if they worked, people wouldn't be spouting off about them. The few technical tricks that have worked were exploited until they were picked up, and then they were worked out of the system.
  • Data  •  9 months ago
    I'm sure glad I sold all my stocks two years ago when last it was "too risky".

    You poor suckers who held on are only up 60% since then.
  • Shoe Shine  •  9 months ago
    It's proven the market makes most of it's gains for any given year on just a few very strong days. Can you tell me which days those will be so I can only buy right before? Thanks in advance.
  • Shoe Shine  •  9 months ago
    It's also proven those who did nothing to their stock portfolio 2008-2010 are in better shape today than those who tried to time the market. Many of those who sold did so in 2009 and missed the up turn in March/2009 and were left behind.
  • jim  •  9 months ago
    People who know what to do should ignore this guy. Why/ Because they know what to do. People who do not know what to do should ignore this guy. Why? Because he will lead them astray. His 15 minutes are up.
  • do_invest  •  9 months ago
    Macke, did you know there were so many fans of buy and hold that view Breakout?

    I am an inexperienced investor and have no experience trading. I recently abandoned buy and hold, but wonder if I will do better. I held all the way from 2007 to March 2011 and did well. I did well only because my 401k contributions going in were much more than I had to start with.

    I sold a lot in March and in June and bought at the peak in April (Macke said it was a "breakout" on 4/29.). I bought again in July and early Aug, just before the downdraft of course.

    The only reason I did not hold recently is that the 2008 crash is fresh in my mind. I flinched standing on the tracks. But I don't want to flinch, I want to make sound decisions. But how do you know when to sell and when to buy?

    I'm thinking I will just match my 401k contribution on non-payday weeks from my remaining cash until it is all in. Then after a good gain of, say, 25%, pull some out into bonds every other week. I am totally clueless of when to buy and sell (unless I am looking at the past.)
  • Hey You  •  9 months ago
    If buy and hold is dead then investing in the stock market for retirement is dead.
  • Greg  •  9 months ago
    By all means try to time the market. Those of us who buy and hold will gain when you lose.
  • Charles  •  9 months ago
    Baker is an idiot. He can jump in and out all he likes, meanwhile I continue to BUY and HOLD for another 35 years, slowly increasing my Bond portion until my 90/10 stocks/bonds becomes10/90, and then I dont really care if a recession hits and stocks lag for 5 years+ when I'm close to retirement. Baker is just peddling the same crap brokers have been saying for 80 years. Go read: "Four pillars of investing", and let some other sucker fall for Baker's "buy and hold is dead", which is just a sexy headline, which got me to click, and all of you to click as well.
  • Timothy  •  9 months ago
    Of course he says buy and hold is dead. He's a hedge fund manager! He wants you to believe that you always have the need for his expertise, otherwise why would he be in business.

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