Wed, May 23, 2012, 12:54 AM EDT - U.S. Markets open in 8 hrs 36 mins

Buy Netflix? A Bull vs. Bear Debate With a Cautionary Tale

Netflix (NFLX) hasn't "disappointed" investors over the last four months. Apple (AAPL) disappointed, as did 3M (MMM). IBM (IBM) came in a little light. Even Amazon (AMZN), with earnings declining 73% on worse than expected revenues and a stock drop of 10%, is still within a standard deviation or two of what can be happen during earnings season.

What Netflix has done to shareholders is something entirely different. Netflix chained investors to the back fender of the company car and floored it. A price increase announced in July and an inexplicable plan to separate the DVD and streaming businesses in September, amongst other failings, had combined to drive NFLX stock down 60%.

All of which was prior to Monday's horror show of an earnings release. You can read the details almost anywhere. For our purposes let's just say it was a quarter that bespoke a company completely out of control of its own business and clueless as to how to right the ship. The market responded by taking yet another 36% out of the stock on more than 3x average volume.

All of which is in rearview. All investors should be concerned with now is whether or not the selling is "overdone" as they say on Wall Street. My co-host Matt Nesto and I explored the issue with an old fashioned Bull versus Bear debate.

Nesto contends that the selling in Netflix is overdone. "Did it deserve to be a 300 dollars (a share)? Probably not. Does it deserve to be 75-dollars? Probably not." Supporting Nesto is that the stock dropped by over a third on huge volume in one day. It could be argued that any investor who's going to sell finally gave up the ghost on Tuesday.

Nesto also gives the company's CEO Reed Hastings credit for being a leader "who tried to do something bold, failed, identified it, accepted it, embraced it quickly, and backed away from it." Many an executive has ridden a decision into the ground or ignored problems in the core business.

I'm slightly less generous. While there's something to be said for Hastings' willingness to experiment and recognize when an idea is a lemon, that's not good enough and hardly solves the problem. Netflix's core DVD business has no place in the world of streaming. While both streaming and DVDs are forms of distributing content, that's more or less where the similarity ends.

If Netflix can't transition to a profitable streaming model, the company dies alongside with DVDs themselves. Streaming is the future and has a whole different business model. Where DVD content is all distributed through the same channels, selling streams requires separate deals with studios and networks. Getting these deals done is absurdly expensive and Netflix is cash poor, having gone through hundreds of millions buying back stock at prices double or triple the current quote.

Netflix's advantage in competing for customers against companies like HBO, who gives away their stream free with subscription, was loyalty to the brand. Hastings' moves have done much to destroy the brand he spent more than a decade building.

From where I'm sitting, Netflix isn't a buy, sell or short. It's a cautionary tale executives will be whispering to one another the way campers tell ghost stories.

There's your bull and bear debate. It's time for you to weigh in. Netflix: buy, sell, or hold? Let us know in the space below.

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172 comments

  • BringJohnEdwardsBack!  •  6 months ago
    How can it not be a buy, sell, or short? The article said it would be a bull vs. bear debate, what is your position?
    • Louis G 6 months ago
      Hold?
    • Macke 6 months ago
      My position is that the stock shouldn't be touched. My argument is entirely negative. Bull v bear isn't "buy" or "sell".
    • Steve 6 months ago
      Customer defection, astronomical licensing costs without the proportional increase in revenue from new sign ups = stale content = decrease in new customer sign ups = decrease revenue ...licensing for shows has grown astronomical...millions for tv shows...Netflix is unable to pay to have fresh content...expansion to China...number one country for movie piracy..the company is headed for bankrupcy
  • Tony D  •  6 months ago
    So the deal is this. No other company offers unlimited streaming for $8/mo. Netflix is doing this and earning more and more revenue each quarter. Look it up....the numbers don't lie. Netflix will remain the leader in the short term and possibly the long term. Streaming is just starting to go mainstream. Cable and SAT companies know it and are offering freebies like STARZ for one year to keep existing customers happy. Streaming movies and TV content is the future. Netflix is best positioned to take control of this movement. As internet-ready TV's become the norm over the next 2 years...it will be logical for all those users to use Netflix subscription service for a flat fee. They are now expanding in Europe. My prediction is Netflix will be the streaming leader as Google is the browser leader and Amazon the internet commerce leader. Sure they made mistakes. This is the right time for longterm thinkers who missed on Google and Amazon to buy now. Also, Cisco will become relevant again since the router capacity MUST be increased to meet the demand of this next wave.
    • Tony D 6 months ago
      40% of all internet traffic during prime time is from Netflix users. What does that tell ya?
    • k 6 months ago
      any facts chief? how bout a link. 40% of the internet traffic? 75% is porn so I cant make you math add up.
    • Tony D 6 months ago
      Many websites concur 30-33% primetime usage by Netflix...granted, haven't confirmed 40% yet. Search the websites, since I cannot post a link here.
  • Don  •  6 months ago
    If they raised their prices 60% and as a result lost 3% of their customer base my math says their near term cash flow increases substantially
    • Macke 6 months ago
      The key words being "near term".

      - Macke
    • k 6 months ago
      key work is you are "lame prick"
    • Jeff 6 months ago
      Yes, the fact I don't see this simple analysis covered tells me this is a media-stoked panic. Also the idea of splitting the company is a good one, probably to be accomplished in some less public fashion. It's the only way to stay as nimble as their newer competitors.
  • Eric  •  6 months ago
    Um, HBO only "gives" away their stream if you have another subscription with a cable company that insist on pushing 500+ channels of #$%$...just to gain access to HBO? And on their schedule... No thanks.
    • Tony D 6 months ago
      Right on brother!
    • Macke 6 months ago
      It's off-topic but try fils if it's available in your area. Very impressive alternative to the traditional cable alternatives.

      - macke
    • Nug G 6 months ago
      I assume Macke meant Fios but had a typo. Macke is correct. Fios is lightning fast. Wish they'd hurry up and come to my area.

      And Eric, I hear ya barkin'.... 500+ unwatchable channels? Cable is a terrible deal.
  • TS  •  6 months ago
    I'm siding a little with nesto on this one. There's alot of competitors, but there aren't any out there that are as good. But I'll agree with you pricing. I wouldn't want to jump in here, at 35$ a share I'd go in with both feet.
    • Jim 6 months ago
      At $35/shar I'd back up the truck, but I doubt you are going to see that price!
    • Chris Gomez 6 months ago
      Have some vision. Who cares how good the competitors are today? If Apple said that, they wouldn't have bothered creating the iPhone. There is room to disrupt this market, and some awfully big boys with plenty of cash to lose are going to try. Someone will eventually buy Netflix. In fact, it could happen awfully soon once Netflix cleans off the tarnish on their brand. The 4.1 billion valuation is peanuts compared to what it will cost Apple, Google, Microsoft, Verizon, AT&T, Comcast or anyone else to get into the business. AT&T was willing to buy T-Mobile for that very reason... cheaper to buy the company that built a bunch of towers than going out and building the same number of towers on your own.
  • Mack  •  6 months ago
    Don't be ridiculous. It's not remotely a bull vs bear debate. It's a "can these morons effectively compete in this market?" debate. Every cable and satellite company is competing with them on PPV, along with Blockbuster, WalMart, and those red boxes in every strip mall. So what do they do? #$%$ off their entire customer base.Badly run companies will fail even in good economic times.
  • anthonyi  •  6 months ago
    Besides the price increase, Netflix needs to find better content. They forced their customers to look elsewhere and they found alternatives like, Hulu, Apple and Blockbuster!
  • Tuan  •  6 months ago
    I'll start dipping if and when it hits around $60. $60 is still double the price 2 years ago. When they split the subscription, I felt it was overreached, but I stayed on and still stay on since it still represents a valuable service for me. Investors look at the 800K defectors and worry, but I think members have not left yet realize the value they get for about $16 a month. One idea I don't see Netflix testing at least in public is to create service levels for streaming so that they can get more revenue to enhance the service.
  • Joe  •  6 months ago
    The worst has yet to come. Drama never cease at Netflix. Do not catch a falling knife..Timber
  • Aranga  •  6 months ago
    I have Amazon Prime. I've only watched 1 movie on Amazon Prime. I also have Netflix, and have watched many, many movies on Netflix. I don't care for Amazon's web site. Netflix has a really good website. So, I would rather pay (and honestly, would pay more) to use Netflix that get movies from Amazon for free.

    An extra $6/month is hardly going to cause me to lose my loyalty.
  • PwnShop  •  6 months ago
    I shorted it but covered prior to earnings release for a nice profit, knowing the earnings release would be a binary event. Turns out it was a '0' and not a '1', my bad. Still made good money tho!
  • "Get a life."  •  6 months ago
    Who are the other streaming competitors on a par with Netflix? The only one I can think of is HULU.
  • A Yahoo! User  •  6 months ago
    It looks to be a definite "good bye".
  • Stephon  •  6 months ago
    this clown said "why wouldn't i buy nflx, it's off 60%" at 120, now he says 45.
  • A. W  •  6 months ago
    NFLX was never a $300.00 stock. Its was $50.00 to $60.00 at best and the smart money was out long before it fell. Smarter investors then shorted it when they decided to raise their prices. They had to know this was coming when websites are doing jokes about them well before we knew the extent of the members leaving and yes, I was a past member but I no longer do the DVD by mail deal. Red box is a better option and they didn't have any moves I wanted to from streaming.

    The only thing holding them up is the short squeeze. They are a $50.00 stock and will be their soon.
  • Rob  •  6 months ago
    Our family loves Netflex. I can't believe it took so many years for us to join. I told my parents now they have it, I told both of our daughters and they also love it. I tried to cancel my dish network they talked me into staying with them because the dropped their price so low that it was worth keeping. So thanks to netflex I get dish network at 75% reduction and next flex for $8 per month. Life is good. I hope Netflex is here to stay!!!!!
  • Morgan  •  6 months ago
    Sorry. Amazon offers over 8,000 movies and TV shows for the price of its prime shipping annual fee. Netflix has a very large competitor in Amazon. I find many of the movies are identical. I did not but the prime shipping (ca $79) for the movies .At the time I did not have ROKU. Can Netflik truely compete with Amazon??
  • Tek  •  6 months ago
    I've subscribed to Netflix for years. They have a great service, but I did shop and try out other services when they announced the rate hike. The verdict? Even at $25.66/mo (what I actually end up paying) for 3 DVDs at a time and instant viewing, it is still a great value. I'll be keeping Netflix for a long time.

    The knee-jerk reaction of Netflix investors will wear off in short order as people realize that they are still a solid and innovative company that offers a great product at a good value. I'll soon be both a Netflix subscriber and a Netflix stock holder.
  • The_Mick  •  6 months ago
    "All investors should be concerned with now is whether or not the selling is "overdone" as they say on Wall Street." WRONG. All "investors" should be concerned with is Netflix's leeadership position in its sector, it's probably sales and income patterns, it's debt level, it's cash flow and P/E, etc. All gamblers should be concerned with is if the selling is overdone, not investors. It's a shame the industry and the journalists associated with them is, more and more, selling technical analysis as "all" investors should do.
  • A Yahoo! User  •  6 months ago
    They had 23 million subscribers, and lost 1 million, I don't see a reason to panic. I do see the media leaving out key data and information which is more frustrating.

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