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    20% Drop in Housing to Cause Recession in 2012, Says Gary Shilling

    Stocks rallied Wednesday after Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke suggested the central bank would go ahead with another round of stimulus -- aka quantitative easing -- if the economy continues to slump. In this scenario, the Federal Reserve would once again purchase assets to keep interest rates low in an attempt to support the economy and prop up asset prices.

    So far, the Fed's actions have done more good for asset prices like stocks (see: S&P 500 chart since 2009) while doing less to help the economy (see: June jobs report). U.S. gross domestic product grew just 1.9% in the first quarter of the year. For 2011 as a whole, the Fed forecasts U.S. GDP growing at 2.7% to 2.9%, which is lower than the plus 3% forecast they made in April.

    Today's guest, Gary Shilling, President of A. Gary Shilling & Co. and author of the Age of Deleveraging says another recession is brewing -- no matter what action the Fed takes. "Economic growth here and abroad is slipping, making a 2012 recession a distinct possibility," he writes in his July newsletter. And, "when you have slow growth it doesn't take much of a shock to throw you in negative territory."

    Shilling says the shock to trigger the next recess is "another big leg-down in housing." (An asset class the Fed has not been able to reflate.) As those familiar with Shilling know, his forecasts are generally bearish.  However, in his defense, Shilling was one of the few economists who correctly predicted the dangers of the subprime mortgage market and its impact on the broader economy.

    The problem with the real estate market remains excess inventory. Based on Shilling's research, there are 2 million to 2.5 million excess homes in the country -- a supply that will take 4-5 years to work-off. The result: Housing prices will fall another 20% and underwater mortgages will balloon from 23% to 40%, he says.

    With housing slumping again, Shilling says recession is coming to a town near you in 2012.

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    2,422 comments

    • James  •  Austin, Texas  •  3 months ago
      IT HAS ONLY JUST BEGUN, THIS IS WHAT THE RICH AND BANKS OF BAILOUT WANTED,SO LET THEM HAVE IT ALL...
    • Madeline  •  5 months ago
      No government, organization, system nor person can stop prophecies from being accomplished...Psalm 2:2-10....Solution----Daniel 2:44....
    • J White  •  9 months ago
      There was no problem with sub-prime mortgages!!! The problem was the Fed raising the prime rate from 4% to 8.25% frocing people with ARMs into foreclosure.
    • Gerald  •  10 months ago
      There are so few jobs as most manufacturing has gone overseas, and what jobs that are still here the wages have not gone up with the cost of living. I own a business and am just barely surviving and I am actually embarrassed at what I pay my employees. I am by no means a rich fat cat and living well while my employees suffer as I too lost my home last year and have cut my living expenses to the bare bones. These are the effects of this great "Global Market" we were promised. I remember several years ago H. Ross Peroit saying on NAFTA and the Global Economy that we will hear a giant sucking sound of all our jobs and industry going elsewhere we laughed and ridiculed him, he was so correct.
      • Ryan 10 months ago
        He was right! Look at who the media ridicules now... Ron Paul...
        Most media is a GIANT propaganda machine. I am an American and interested in the course of our nation... Why is it that I have to watch BBC and other international channels to see SIMPLY "the news", "current affairs"... Why cant we get just the news in this country... Rather than the opinionated, spin doctored crap we have in the United States now....
      • Den 10 months ago
        Yes he was and I voted for him too. The problem is Americans soooooooo want to identify with the red or the blue and they don't think for themselves. I'll give you all a little hint. The Fed runs the government. Presidents are selected not elected. Follow the money people, you will see the truth.

        Do not vote red or blue in any election.
      • D 10 months ago
        Global Market...............pushed by socialists even in our schools. What a complete failure.
    • C Staff  •  10 months ago
      I have had problems financially since 2008 and I just don't see new jobs out there to get. When your over 50 no one wants to give you a chance. I need hope.
      • An American Progressive 10 months ago
        And if you've been unemployed for more than 6 months, they won't even give you the time of day!
      • Concerned 10 months ago
        I am in the same boat!! also over 50..have survived by doing part time work..lots of it for different firms at the same time...It sux's but works..hang in there..and it will turn..good luck to you..
      • M 10 months ago
        I'm with ya! Never thought I would be in this position nor for as long as it's been. Doesn't look promising today or tomorrow , but, giving up isn't much of an answer. Take it day by day and try to create the "Hope and Change" since someone else can't do it as promised!! What suckers we were for voting for him.
    • Erin  •  10 months ago
      The Recession never ended
      • Robertinho 10 months ago
        Thank you for realizing that its still ongoing too Erin
      • Jim 10 months ago
        Yeah it really feels like this has been a very long recession. Let's call it the Bush recession. But the actual definition of a recession is 2 consecutive declining quarters of GDP (Gross Domestic Product). So even though it feels like it, we're technically not in a recession in the present.
      • john 10 months ago
        In the 1920's when the farmers overproduced crops and prices dropped to almost zero the federal government stepped in and buried and Bernard surplus crops to drive the price back up. It just makes sense that if there are too many houses maybe we should start burning them down. If there foreclosed and owned by the Bank then only the bank loses and I'm sure no one would lose sleep over that.
    • Newells  •  10 months ago
      Another recession? Anyone with half a brain knows the first one never actually ended.
      • Chris 10 months ago
        correct
      • werther 10 months ago
        You obviously do not know what a recession is. It is two consecutive quarters of negative gross domestic product. We have not had a single quarter of negative gdp since the second quarter of 2009.

        If you want to say that we have not fully recovered from the recession that ended in June 2009 that is fine. I agree that we are not at the point that we were at during the first quarter of 2008 when the recession started.
      • Joe 10 months ago
        werther, you are giving def #1. recession can also be used in a non-technical way such as newells is using it.
    • Concerned  •  10 months ago
      We are in a depression that will take 10 years to
      correct.
      Take the time read history and see what
      happened in 1930.
      I never thought we would see this happen in our
      life time!
      • BOO 10 months ago
        Someone that make sense The history is there but nobody read it.
        We are in BIG TRAVEL If this is today can you imaging our kids or grand kids ??
      • Deb Asset Pending 10 months ago
        SUX. Everyone needs a home. Just give 'em one. Even if they can't pay for it. What taxes? Ha!
      • Larry 10 months ago
        Are CRAZY WAR MONGERING government spending $$$$$ like crazy 2 wars at the same time lasting 10 years ???? What for ? halaburton to get RICH . Russia couldnt beat the afgannies, at least they realiazed it and left dodge !! What does " w " do ?? starts another 10 year war in Irac for GRINES, were goinna fight them over there so we dont have to fight them here ?????????? WHAT ????? how they gonna get here can camels swim ? The problem with this country is STUPIDITY when did people stop using there tiny little brains ??? Cavemen had more common sence than are government has !!
    • scott b  •  10 months ago
      some day we have to start teaching economics in hs. everyone should be financially literate because businesses refuse to provide pensions to their workers. everyone should be planning from an early age for retirement. you should always be looking for a new job. if companies dont show you any loyalty you should not show them any either. protect yourself
    • A Yahoo! User  •  10 months ago
      Jobs, Jobs, Jobs. No good paying jobs; no one can afford to buy a decent house. It is time to stop the hemorraging of jobs overseas, protect the American economy by trade parity.,
    • LarryE  •  10 months ago
      Anyone that thinks the first great recession ended is nuts..I think the word the second great depression is more approprate
    • DTT  •  10 months ago
      Prices will revert to the mean price adjusted for inflation. If that is another 20% its likely to happen. We also have to remember that the average American's income adjusted for inflation has been falling since the 1970's. We didn't notice it too much as it happened in very small increments over a lot of years, but it does add up and over the last 40 years our incomes have shrunk by about 20%. It hasn't happened equally and some people have been hurt much less. The only group to have real income growth during this time was the high income earners. Most Americans either just traded down or got home equity loans to continue their 1970's income lifestyles. When we really found out how bad off we were was when we lost much of our equity in our homes, we lost the ability to borrow, we lost our nest egg and many people their retirement savings plan. Most Americans have no significant savings and have nothing other than the equity in their homes. In other words, most Americans really have nothing left other than their shrinking paycheck.
      There is an answer that will help most people, but the answer is its painful. Very simply put, we need to live beneath our means, pay down debt, save and invest carefully. We need to learn to enjoy saving as much as we used to enjoy spending. It requires postponing gratification and liking it. It means understanding what is a need and a want and not spending for wants. For our economy as a whole it means the paradox of thrift will kick in and it will hurt the economy, but as individuals we need to worry about ourselves and not to worry about the economy. It also means we will need to do this for years before we can be sure we have enough in reserves to withstand what our economy may throw at us.
    • oncorhynchus keta  •  10 months ago
      Try getting an FHA insured loan with a 40% downpayment and you'll see just how the paranoid bankers (read Wells Fargo) treat you. It was the most humiliating fiancial transaction I have ever experienced and I put up over $160k of my own cash to close the deal which took over 3 months. Banks like Wells have so-called "loan underwriters" who wake up every morning thinking about how they can screw you over on any given day. How about demanding a copy of the drivers license of the owner of the real estate franchise I bought my home through? I AM NOT making this up. And it got worse than this. I hope the CEO of Wells in San Fran Cali.sees this email. If I ever saw him,I would kick his @#$% so far up his back he would have to take off his shirt to take a s__t!
    • Christine  •  10 months ago
      I think it's about time they all started calling this a depression. A recession is less than three years and a depression is well, past 3 years.
    • Randall  •  10 months ago
      What happened to the "Green Economy" and the all the new jobs that were supposed to be generated by it?
    • walkawayok  •  10 months ago
      $23,040 a year, ($12 an hour) above average service job.
      After tax's take home is about 20.7K, family health insurance, well you flat out can't afford it for your family. Divide by 12 is $ 1725 a month. $450 food ($5 a meal), $300 utilities, gasoline $300, leaves $1050. This is what is left for a house if you have no car payment, car insurance($100), phone bill($60), clothing(?), entertainment(?), childcare(?), vices(?), christmas present(?), well you get the picture. Property tax's and insurance will run you at least $300 a month. Looks like you can afford a $750 monthly mortgage! When the average home is $100K or less (assuming property tax's don't rise..... right,) It will be time to buy.
      Add in car payment, insurance, etal. and watch your mortgage ability drop. Keep track, incidental spending adds up fast. In reality you probably can't afford $50K

      Scary when actual numbers are used, eh
    • EDWARD K  •  10 months ago
      Too many people not enough jobs equals civil unrest.
    • Donald Smith  •  10 months ago
      Can't buy a house if your job went to China. If it hasn't gone yet, your boss wants u to work for just enough to buy gas to get to work.
    • A Yahoo! User  •  10 months ago
      Real estate isn't crashing. It was monstrously inflated before, and EVERYONE KNEW IT.
    • Bruce  •  10 months ago
      I lived in China last year- what a difference! It doesnt take long to say why these people are thriving while we are losing our shirts....

      1. They stick together. Family members help each other financially. They take care of their elders. When one family member wants to start a business, they all pich in- even cousins and second cousins!
      2. They save and pay cash. Credit card companies have had a tough sell in china.
      3. They live within their means.
      4. They are not slaves to possessions- unlike here, where you are a complete and total LOSER if you don't have the latest Apple product, Gucci bag, Louis Vuitton luggage, etc. (all bought on a credit card, of course.
      5. They don't buy brand-new Infiniti G35s, Audi A4s, or BMW 3-series (and the $600 month car payments that go with them) the day that they graduate from college.

      When we follow suit, we will ALL be better off.....

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