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    Greece Cannot Be Saved: If Italy and Spain Follow, So Goes the Entire EU, Says Ruparel

    "If a reconstruction plan does not come soon, Europe's leaders will be charged with 'the decline of the West'". Sobering words from Gordon Brown, former Prime Minister of the United Kingdom published in an op-ed in the International Tribune this week.

    As worries over Greece continue to grip the market, the instability of Italy and Spain's sovereign debt has become a major concern as well. (See: EU Officials All Talk, No Solutions, Open Europe's Ruparel Says)

    "It's now necessary for those trying to manage the sovereign crisis to give certainty, to define with clarity the political objectives, the scope of the instruments and the amount of resources available," incoming ECB President Mario Draghi said Wednesday in a speech in Rome, Bloomberg reports. "It's a necessary step to ensure the stability of the euro area and its currency."

    At times like this, the debate almost always shifts to whether the European Union can sustain itself over the long-term.

    The Daily Ticker's Aaron Task sat down with Raoul Ruparel, economic analyst at Open Europe, an independent UK-based think tank, to get his take on the matter.

    "If problems fully spread to Italy and Spain, there is no doubt that they are too big to bail out under the current system," says Ruparel. "And if that happens, it looks as if the [Eurozone] would be forced to break up or move completely towards a complete fiscal union."

    He gives the European Monetary Union five years time to know whether or not it can sustain itself. Right now the current political climate in all European countries is that a break up is not "politically possible," says Ruparel. But that could all change if it got to the "crunch stage" where a "black or white" decision had to be made between accepting fiscal union - effectively meaning a loss of sovereignty and German dominance of the Eurozone -- or abandoning the idea of European unity altogether.

    You might be wondering about the so-called "ring-fence" that EU and IMF officials had been trying to erect around Greece to prevent such a contagion. It is Ruparel's view that EU officials got that strategy all wrong.

    "They tried to ring-fence it with a bailout and some liquidity when it is a solvency and competitiveness problem.... If you really want to ring-fence these countries you really need to give them some form of debt restructuring or debt relief," he says. "It has taken time for financial markets to wake up to this, but [now] have realized that nothing has changed and that Greece is just as insolvent as ever."

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    120 comments

    • Patrick  •  Chicago, Illinois  •  4 months ago
      Where's Greece going you morons? You can buy 3 city blocks in Chicago for what a small apartment costs in the hills in Greece.
    • Patrick  •  Chicago, Illinois  •  4 months ago
      Wikipedia} life expectancy US 78.3 Europe 80.9, Homicides per capita US 4.8 Europe 1.3
      Vacation days US 13 Europe 34. Euro 1.30 US dollars. Health care and universities in Europe are free in the US they are prohibitively expensive. What do you all smoke? We need their system.
    • ThinkingBear  •  10 months ago
      They allowed too many reckless nations join the Euro zone. Now the responsible nations must pay for that.
      Just like here in America: people who pay their mortgages, people who saved, people who played by the rules got screwed by sleazy politicians, from Bush to Paulson to Geithner to Obama to Bernake. They rob responsible people and give their money to morons!
      • Non-PC 10 months ago
        They take the money wherever there is something that they can lay their hands on. Fair or unfair, those are irrelevant questions for people in power.
      • Joe Blow 10 months ago
        Agreed. there will be no fairness in dealing with this mess. Those with the loudest voices only will be heard and screw the rest. I have never been militant in my life but ready to take to the streets over this.
      • Timothy 10 months ago
        I think this is a compete over reaction. Greece will default next year. Greece will be removed from the EMZ and that is it. Greece is not Italy is not France is not the US. They need to be removed. Protugal is making much more headway in its continue membership in the EMZ. Ireland is also broke, but it is a property bank problem much like Spains and UK's. They will stay along with 90% of the Euro countries. But the EU and the Euro Monetary Zone will be here in 5 years and will be just as strong as it is today without Greece.The germans and nordic need to cut greece off to save the system. The Euro is more important than greece!!!!!!
    • cos  •  10 months ago
      Everybody is predicting the demise of the socialist Europe. Don���t forget, Germany is a socialist country and is doing much better than USA. It���s not the system, it���s the people.
      • Việt Hùng Quốc 10 months ago
        Agree
      • Larry 10 months ago
        It is both. Example, hard working Hispanics have to leave their country -- not because their people are lazy, but because of the systemic corruption.
      • Gerd 10 months ago
        German is doing better than US of A, but melt down in EU will drag the Germany down to melting pot also. Just because lung is working good, does noty it will save the sick patient if all other organ fails.
    • Raffael  •  10 months ago
      In my view, a EURO UNION without a full fiscal union cannot be sustained over a long period of time. To have a complete fiscal union, each country must adhere to central policies and fiscal programs which is impossible given the mix of countries in the UNION and their social programs and preferred livestyles. The best solution is to revert to their local currencies but maintain FREE trade, free borders and all other advantages of the UNION. With their local currencis, each country will be in a much better position, regain an effective lever to manage their finances and economic programs.
      • ClausW 10 months ago
        I agree whole heartedly
      • Will 10 months ago
        Always refreshing to see common sense in here instead of rambling angry nonsense.
      • Grandtrip 10 months ago
        Absolutely agree.The Euro was a mistake from the beginning...
    • asdf  •  10 months ago
      The entire concept of a single currency is flawed. It reminds me of the parties at Naval officer's clubs fifty years ago. The total bar bill was split equally between all of the officers. Therefore it was to everyone's advantage to drink as much as they wanted because it would be virtually paid for by the other officers.
      • Greg H 10 months ago
        we are spending like drunken sailors in the USA too
      • Byakuya 10 months ago
        Your logic is invalid and not applicable in this situation.

        The US has a single currency for one nation, how come she can't balance her books?
      • asdf 10 months ago
        J. It is the same in the US. Everyone wants their pet project funded because it will be paid for by all of the other tax payers.
    • DTT  •  10 months ago
      I don't see how the Euro Zone can continue as it is now. None of the PIIGS are going to accept the austerity plans that the Euro Zone finance ministers are proposing. The political will is not there to allow it. It means too much pain and suffering over too long a period and it just won't happen. We will either see the PIIGS leave the Euro Zone or it break up completely some time in the next few years. The Euro was a great idea, but to make it work everyone must play by the same set of rules and it simply isn't doable, the countries are far to different both in culture and in their economies.
      The big question I have is what will be the impact of the defaults or the break up of the Euro on the US. How interlaced is our financial system with the Euro Zone and how much of the debt of the PIIGS is held by US banks and other institutions in the US, I'm not certain that this will impact the US as predicted. My guess is we have more European debt than has been admitted.
      • Gerhard 10 months ago
        The question is whether a new Deutsch Mark would replace the Euro as the strong currency. Most likely it would be a flight to "quality" (tongue in cheek) and the US dollar. Or do you really think the Chinese Yuan can become a world currency?
      • Byakuya 10 months ago
        Here's a better question.

        If the US continues to print money they way they do, how much longer will they keep their sole reserve currency status? 10 years? 20? 30?

        Putin has already hinted on many occassions that a alternative reserve currency will replace the US dollar. Whether it be the Yuan, or United East Asian currency, we don't know yet.

        I'm willing to bet, if China continues positive reforms and development, their currency will automatically become a preferred investment regardless of what people call it.

        Who would buy US dollars if they know it'll go down in value next week?
      • liz 10 months ago
        to DTT who are the PIGS???? germans are called SWINS do u know that??
        don't call me PIG...as of course one pig knows teh other!!
        I am american too...but i am european as well!! if u guys know so well what's going on in the EURO zone....why can't WE fix the USA too?? i have houses in both places...and i have been hit on both sides!
        hope u know what DTT means in Europe LOL LOL LOL not good...worse than pig!!!
        and people...if we didn't feed the rich they wouldn't be rich...so stop watching movies...smoking....having too many expensive phones/stuff....buying fancy things etc etc ahhh and coke/pepsi/ starbucks! LOL LOL
        now call me crazy...b.....i am old, only worried about my kids/grankids/young people in general as it will be much worse!!! SAVE!!!!
    • Pablo  •  10 months ago
      The Euro monetary system, of course, if a fake. The Germans hate it, the Swiss and Danes stay out of it and the British don't want it. Of course the international bankers and the politicians love it.
      Go and figure!
    • comment_hidden_due_to_low ...  •  10 months ago
      I preferred Europe before the Euro. Looks like it is going to be that way again. I liked drachmas, lire, pesetas, francs. The Euro was a big mistake, a common currency without a common central bank. How stupid is that? We are now seeing how stupid it is.
    • stellarbowler  •  10 months ago
      This is exactly why the New World Order plan for one currency is doomed. The lab is burning down, and the international bankers can't put out the flames because they'll go down too.
    • Paul  •  10 months ago
      EU will be a thing of the past...Greece has always been socialist country, along with the other failing EU states. Greece has always had the have and have nots, it's time to let these none contributing countries go it alone
    • 123  •  10 months ago
      Next is California.
    • Tim  •  10 months ago
      Looks like Germany will finally have total control over Europe and this time they didn't have to fire a shot.
    • Frank  •  10 months ago
      The EURO has been a loser for the past two years. Germany should get out now, rather than trying to hold it together.
    • blame yourself  •  10 months ago
      the euro cleverly bought time for european countries

      they are out of tricks and they sucked others down the tube with them

      the smart ones will abil and issue their own currency before the others
    • rayt  •  10 months ago
      Its not too late stop the 3 wars, cut unnecessary spending ,stop benefits for every govt employee, tax the rich but fairly and revert back to common sense something our govt knows nothing about.
    • AmericansFirst  •  10 months ago
      Globalism is a dismal failure with these short comings and the terrorist activities in nearly every country and wars and threat of wars !
    • Mike Johnson  •  10 months ago
      People, People think for a minute stop running around like your sheep! Why is greece in trouble? Why is Ireland in trouble? They borrrowed to much money just like the US has done. We here in the states are no different they are just ahead of us on the curve. In 2020 medicaid and medicare are bankrupt! BANKRUPT! We have no way back, no more money to borrow. Additionaly, we have massive debt to pay back; it doesnt matter where it came from, we got it and its growing expotentially! The policies of the last thirty plus years have destroyed this country. Our government is run by corporations, who are only interested in providing wealth to its share holders . I have no problem with this business model, but they should not have been allowed to control congress. Now that coporations now have person status, they can give as much money to thier canadate of choice as they want. Do you not realize what this means? Political leaders will be selected for you openly and there is nothing that people can do to stop it. This means that KINGS wil be created and will be untouchable. KINGS! Unless this changes we the people will be a memory.
    • A Yahoo! User  •  10 months ago
      The fruits of socialism ......
    • Theodore  •  10 months ago
      Free Trade with All, Alliances with None...

      Thomas Jefferson said it best, he also said that if we ever adopted a central bank, which we did after the Constitution was ratified, the US would see itself foreign owned and corporations would rule over the citizenry.

      This is absolutely true. I've worked in corporate america after selling my business, only to find illtolerance to hard work and great ideas, lots of tolerance to politiking to get ahead. Hmm, sound familiar? That go along get along approach is in Congress right now.

      Alexander Hamilton, the cursed founder of the United States current political system, said "the national debt will be a blessing."

      This is no blessing at all; it's a curse, it's a curse that's created chaos and disharmony for generations. From air pollution to overpopulation, the idea that single entities controlling the money supply for the good of the people is one of the most blatant criminal acts mankind has ever seen.

      I remember a man who once said "if the people ever really knew about the Federal Reserve, they'd revolt." Well everyone, I've been studying this issue for years, reading everything from Austrian to Monetarist theories, and I'll tell you this, NOW is the time to take control of your lives, get rid of the Fed and its crony capitalists, after all, it was Karl Marx who said in the Communist Manifesto that a central bank was essential to the devleopment of socialism - to communism.

      We've been more socialist than anyone has ever realized. It's a failure of magnificent proportions. Greece, my parents home country, is ruined by the very idea that all wealth must be shared equally, that all wealth is generated from the creation of money out of thin air, Euro to Drachma.

      The starvation plan will now begin in earnest. There is nothing more the crony inflationists can do but to rot the money supply and starve people to death, to hopelessly create more chaos and disharmony, all leading to WWIII, which we are in right now.

      I don't speak in religious terms, I speak in terms of facts and evidence. NO fiat monetary regime has ever lasted an eternity. ALL wars are the result of economic chaos, ALL of them. Now's the time to take control or WE will be the victims of a holocaust so cruel it makes the Jewish Holocaust look like it was just a cup of coffee.

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