Anya Kamenetz Generation Debt

gary - Saturday, November 10, 2007, 1:11PM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 1/5

and the alternative is would you like fries with that ? of course college is worth it . education becomes a valuable asset in which can never be taken away . priceless .

Yahoo! Finance User - Thursday, October 18, 2007, 7:35PM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 3/5

While I will say the article is well written, many return to school in pursuit of a MA simply for the opportunity to supplement their BA. I graduated with a horrible BA in Criminology that cannot provide a single job opportunity without a hard science to back it up or at the very least a Masters in a hard social science field such as Public Administration or Policy. Getting a 2nd BA would simply be a waste of time in my opinion, and the next best step would be a MA seeing as many programs offer students that necessary "real world" experience they did not obtain while earning that BA. In my case, I worked retail/ customer service, as many other students do, while earning my BA. Another point, money should not be the only determining factor in all of this. Our society doles out nothing but money driven MBA's. That is where academia has gone wrong. It has turned into a money making machine, taking all the actual education out of it.

Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, October 10, 2007, 6:14PM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 4/5

I wish I wish I wish I had read an article like this 2 years ago before I went into considerable debt undertaking a graduate program in a subject on which I knew little more than it would guarantee me lots of job prospects (accounting). It's easy to see grad school (especially business or law) as a ticket to a well-paying career and ignore the strong possibility that you might hate the work you get afterward. Anya is right on: get experience in the field before you go to grad school AND find the cheapest way possible to do it. I wish she had mentioned that some companies, like Starbucks and Bank of America, will give you hefty tuition stipends.

Yahoo! Finance User - Thursday, October 4, 2007, 10:53PM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 5/5

Hey Anya, check out PTs article on Bschools. It's basically a dumbed down version of your well researched article!!! lmao!

Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday, September 26, 2007, 4:00PM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 2/5

What should have been mentioned up there is that for technical graduate degrees (engineering especially) very few people have to pay for it out of pocket at most universities. Typically funding and stipends through research work are available. Most of this comes from actual research project that are funded by outside sources. Then you aren't going into debt or even paying for an advanced degree, merely getting paid less for the expected higher earnings later. This is something you should always ask about before going into a program.

Eve - Tuesday, September 25, 2007, 10:17AM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 3/5

The point of this article is whether or not the financial investment in grad school will pay off financially in a corresponding salary. The article is not intended to rate job satisfaction. My personal feeling is on why MA's in humanities earn less than BA's is that MA's are in their field because of passion, and not money. I know this as my own personal experience. Having an MA and currently working on an MBA have not necessarily helped me financially, but I feel intellectually stimulated.

Artyem - Friday, September 21, 2007, 9:18AM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 2/5

If your only measure of what is important is MONEY - this article addresses those issues. but anyone with a soul (and a brain) knows that the measure of one's life must be calculated not just in cold hard dollars, but in personal growth, fulfillment, and how the world was improved with one's contribution. This writer, as well as many of the readers whose comments I have just read, make the huge and sad mistake that money is the measure of all success. Please don't buy into that capitalistic myth. If a Ph.D. is what excites you and makes your life what you dream, that has more value than a calculated marketplace assessment of what the degree will earn you in dollars - how about what it will earn you in LIFE VALUE? Following your true inner vision and your intuition and your love of humanity might not add up in dollars, but they sure do add up in SENSE.

David - Wednesday, September 19, 2007, 3:56PM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 2/5

After having been through grad school I'll say that your average MBA debt burden is about half the realistic number, but the conclusion that it pays-off is accurate. Lots of folks head to grad school as the instant solution to salary improvement and job advancement. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Doreen - Wednesday, September 19, 2007, 3:10AM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 1/5

She sounds like someone who never had to worry about making a living. Most of us NEED a college degree in order to get a half-decent job. Doesn't matter what it costs, the fact is an employer won't look twice at you without either 1 the degree or 2 friends in the network. I'd bet a lot of money that this woman has the second.

Jonathan - Monday, September 17, 2007, 8:34PM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 5/5

Will C is right, except that the government is no longer the only organization granting loans, investors are now fast becoming the biggest loaners of money for continued education throught banks and other lending institutions. Its time the truth came out. They would like you to be indebted to them for as many years as possible for as much as possible. The problem now becomes that even bankruptcy cant save you from the burden of these loans. The investors have rigged the system so that they now have an inbedded insurance policy, one that allows them to continue to hassle you so that they can collect no matter what problem life throws your way: disease, disaster, death, it doesnt matter much to them. An individual would have a much better chance of success in life working for oneself and starting a small business. This IS the American dream, and the only real way left to experience real wealth, in terms of substantial debt free money and the freedom from the overwhelming chains of the system which has most of you enslaved!

Andrew S - Monday, September 17, 2007, 2:44PM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 3/5

there are too many factors in play here to really do this topic justice in two pages. but does your boss have a bs or mba? do you want to carry a briefcase or a toolbox? certain types of occupations require at least a bachelor's degree - teacher, accountant, etc - some a grad degree - attorney, physician, etc. - and some people such as plumbers, truck drivers, or certain unionized occupations don't require formal education at all. It depends on what you want to do, not how much $$$ you want to make!

dapixelator - Monday, September 17, 2007, 2:01PM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 4/5

I think we need to give the writer a bit of a break. It is a "lay of the land" sort of article to give some food for thought and not much news if you've done your homework (no pun intended). There are few absolutes in life. True, college educated people tend to make more than HS only. But there are exceptions-bus. owners, trades people, etc. Getting an advanced degree doesn't guarantee anything and largely depends on profession, your situation, the company you work for. There are also tons of other factors-drive, ambition, personality and yes luck. There is also the "money-isn't everything-factor". People don't teach grade school for the money, they do it for the love of teaching. Many comments below indicate a delusion that bus. owners or advanced degrees make you rich. 2003 IRS figures indicate that the top 10% earn over 100k per year (11 MM returns). Roughly 80% of the returns had income of less than $75k (80MM returns). The top ~2.5% make over $200k per year (2.5MM returns). Life lesson- we can't all be "rich". Net... - Do what you love - Weight the costs vs. what you can reasonably make - Don't expect to get rich if you work in a profession that doesn't pay well.

jason - Monday, September 17, 2007, 12:55PM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 5/5

The most important part of the story is: "t's important to remember that universities create and market new graduate programs to serve their own needs...". The question is when will the public understand the fact that much of academia is a huge scam?

MikeM - Monday, September 17, 2007, 11:21AM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 2/5

Lots of genaralizations doesn't help much. The "50% more" in the technical professions for master degrees is too high and levels off after 10-15 yrs.

Yahoo! Finance User - Monday, September 17, 2007, 9:44AM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 1/5

I am not sure what makes this lady an expert, better yet an expert on what? Compilation of info and a bunch of wrong conclusions.

Ben Dover - Monday, September 17, 2007, 7:46AM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 4/5

I generally agree with the assesment. I have an MS in engineering. It helped, but I really went back to school because I wanted to enhance my undergraduate experience, which was too scripted. Personal enrichment should also be a factor, even if it is expensive.

Itsa - Saturday, September 15, 2007, 7:29PM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 5/5

Kamenetz's two articals should be commended for debunking the cultural mythology that hold all formal education sacred and always financially remunerative. Young people making educational decisions involving years of sacrifice and debt deserve "truth-in-lending" disclosures regarding the genuine probable return on their considerable investment.

Gary - Saturday, September 15, 2007, 10:38AM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 5/5

At last - someone brazen enough to tell the truth about "higher education". The current education system is cranking out sub par graduates faster than a puppy farm can crank out dogs. If you want to be successful learn what you need to learn and work harder than everyone else. And if you want to be rich - work for yourself.

ag - Friday, September 14, 2007, 5:35PM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 3/5

Nothing new here.

RaulP - Friday, September 14, 2007, 2:01PM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 4/5

It's great that someone is critically writing about one of the most important financial decisions any person will ever make. Unfortunately, we choose our career at a point in life where we know very little about how the world really works. Idealism is great in the movies... I have a Bachelors and Masters degrees in Electrical Engineering and have seen the financial rewards accrue. However, I meet so many young people getting degrees in liberal arts and many other "soft-sciences" and I wonder; do this people have any idea how they are going to pay the bills? Life is not fair, just because someone is more "cultured" doesn't mean you will be able to afford the lifestyle of the elite. Many try and go bankrupt in the process. It seems immoral to me that someone would lend a student more debt than they are likely to be able to repay according to projected earnings for their field. It's become a taboo to tell people that certain fields are not as important, but someone has to break the news to them or else a lifelong financial problem will resume.

Steven - Friday, September 14, 2007, 1:09PM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 4/5

It seems that only people without PhDs are saying that they aren't worth getting. I have a PhD in Electrical Engineering, but I don't feel that chances of getting a job are limited to only academia. In fact, I have plenty of opportunities in industry that would not have been available to me with a BS or MS. A PhD is not for everyone, it leads to a different career path, but by no mean a limited one (at least in EE, I can't speak for other fields).

Yahoo! Finance User - Friday, September 14, 2007, 12:16PM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 4/5

Medical resident salaries are actually in the $40K-50K range. MD degree holders have guaranteed 6 figure jobs and are definitely a better ROI than most graduate degrees. That being said, no one should become a doctor unless they enjoy medicine.

Renaissance777 - Friday, September 14, 2007, 11:09AM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 5/5

I found this to be a good article that was fairly thorough when considering the length allowed by her editors. I have found in my line of work (engineering) that experience and consistent success with projects and designs seem to hold more value on a resume than a graduate degree. Six figure salaries and bonuses are easily atainable for those who have an impressive history showing various technical endeavors and corresponding skills. Graduate degrees seem to take a back seat to experience and performance concerning position and compensation.

Laura - Friday, September 14, 2007, 10:40AM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 1/5

Is anyone thinking about the opportunity cost? So you go to college for 10-12 years and get a Ph.D. Let's say the PhD will get you a $40K starting salary increase. Someone who has been working in the filed professionally for the 6 years you've been in grad school will already be making that much, if not more, over the starting salary. They'll also have experience and professional certifications. Don't be fooled by this asinine article, getting a PhD is a ticket to having far fewer job opportunities and making less money, not more. The vast majority of PhDs end up working the public university system. A PhD is essentially a teaching certification.

Arthur B - Friday, September 14, 2007, 9:46AM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 5/5

Have you hired a plumber, electrician, locksmith or carpenter lately? A wealthy old brickmaker once said to me, "There's too many people going to college in this country. Some sob's gotta do the work!"

bob - Friday, September 14, 2007, 9:11AM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 4/5

As others have noted, education isn't just about money, but you need to consider the money very carefully when shopping for a school, and choosing whether to go go grad school in the first place. I've been to grad school and taught it, so fwiw: 1) As this article suggests, there really is no such thing as "PhD job market." In fields like finance and computer science, you can get a good job (and $125K starting salary as a finance prof) by going to most of the schools in the USNews top 100 national universities. In history, you may not get any job even if you earn a PhD from a top-20 USNews school. In short, know the market for both the field and the school. 2) There is also really no such thing as the MBA or law job market: go to a top-25 USNews school, and it's one thing, go to your local university with little national name, and you spend a lot on tuition and still scramble to find a job that pays more than you made before you went there. 3) If getting a better job is the point, either go full time to a big-name MBA, law, etc., or, if you can't do that, go part time and let your employer pay the tuition. 4) The people who have argued that the way to really make big money is to start a business, plow profits back in, sell it and pay capital gains versus income taxes are correct. But it takes money to start a business, most new businesses fail, and even if you do get a business going, you'll have to pay for health, life, retirement, without those all those employer benefits. Not for everyone. 5) In many fields, research will show you that the list of best programs is not dominated by private schools - UVA and Michigan law are in the top 10 with Harvard and Penn etc. Consider private schools, which are more expensive, very carefully. 5) If you are thinking about a PhD at a certain school, create a strong application and then ask to visit the program, including a meeting with some current PhD students. That will help you get in, if you have read up on the field and make a good impression, and you may learn a lot about placement if you ask.

youngprofessional - Friday, September 14, 2007, 5:47AM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 1/5

garbage.

Dmitriy - Friday, September 14, 2007, 1:09AM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 1/5

The problem with this article, as well as with many comments, is that college degree is perceived akin to a train ticket. You pay the fare, you get the ride. Spend $x, get $y/per year in return. But, this is utter nonsense. College education shold not be looked at as a guarantee of a better life. Instead, it should be considered a tool in your overall life strategy. This is similar to buying a piece of machinery for your bussiness. If you make the right purchase that fits your overall business strategy, it will make you money, even if the machine is expensive and has to be financed. On the other hand, having a tool is no guarantee that your product will sell or customers come in. So, if you don't have a clear goal... you'll be stuck with a useless toy and huge payments. Let's apply this analogy to graduate degree. Let's say you are on a job and notice that the company is struggling to find qualified candidates with certain skills afforded by a graduate degree. Furthermore, because of shortage, the salary is substantially higher and this is something you'd like to do and would be good at. Than, it would make perfect sense to go and get the degree. The employer would likely gladly pay for it as well. Notice how in this example strategy comes first, and the degree is just a tool to get what you want. Compare this to somebody getting an MBA just because it's somehow supposed to make him/her more valuable and higher paid. This is a gamble that would likely not work. In fact, Anya, you could write an article about how purchasing a crane improves incomes of building contractors. Just get the data of what the incomes were before and after. If the income is higher, conclude that every contractor ought to buy a freaking crane. If not, tell them to stay away from the cranes. I hope you can see that such a conclusion would be an utter useless garbage. It is the business plan that counts, not the tools. I think you need to start with defining what you want. Ask yourself what your goal really is. If it's money, than the best way to do it is opening your business. Every statistic will show you that having a bussiness is the single largest factor in becoming wealthy, far greater than education. Note, that to get the business going, education, including advanced degrees, may be required, but it is still no more than a tool toward a larger goal. On the other hand, you goal may be something like academic research. Again, the degree will be the required tool. Lastly, it is my belief confirmed by numerous observations, that the determining factor in one's success is how passionate he/she is about the chosen field. If you are truly passionate about something, you may become the very best at it. In that case, the economics is totally different. It might be true that spending $100k to study creative writing may bring $30k/year to an average graduate. But, what if you could become the best? What if that training is the simply the tool to polish an incredible talent? Would you still go a "safe" road and get a frigging MBA or whatever you going to dread doing for the rest of your life?

patrick - Thursday, September 13, 2007, 9:49PM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 3/5

Ok here is the real deal at least with Science and Engineering ... You get tuition covered stipend = ~40K on average if you are lucky you get a fellowship. Some of these pay you 32K tuition. Now if you are there just for the piece of paper on the wall might as well stay at home. But if you are there to really meet the movers and shakers of the next wave of technology then those "soft" skills can get you a lot of places... Consider alternate careers also ... We are turning into a service economy and engineering/science skills are needed in all parts of the business world not just the labs.

kathleen o - Thursday, September 13, 2007, 9:22PM ET  Report Abuse

• Overall: 5/5

This article should be read by every student planning to go to college. I wish I had had access to this type of information years ago before wasting time and money on a degree that is worthless.