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Mick Weinstein The Week's Best Stock Blogs

Mick Weinstein, The Week's Best Stock Blogs

Is This Rally for Real?

by Mick Weinstein

Good (133 Ratings)
2.706764/5
Posted on Friday, April 17, 2009, 12:00AM

The S&P 500's rapid 26 percent rise since its March 9 low has investors wondering if stocks have put in a meaningful bottom. Has the time come to put new money to work in equities, or is this a mere bear market rally that will unwind shortly as indexes plumb new lows? Both cases rely on speculation regarding the macroeconomic picture, as traditionally the stock market has served as a leading indicator of broader economic recovery -- an indicator, that is, which one can only really observe in retrospect. Ben Bernanke, for one, sees "green shoots" of recovery sprouting up.

Here's one helpful starting place on the matter: a comparison chart of 4 Bad Bear Markets that DShort updates daily. Or in another (more humorous) framework, are we in Stage 13 or Stage 15 of this investor psychology chart? Econobloggers weigh in on both sides:

The 'This Rally's Got Legs' Camp

• Portfolio manager J.D. Steinhilber says this move should have staying power. Steinhilber cites "the sheer magnitude of the bear market declines in broad stock indexes (60%!) over the past 18 months" and believes "[t]he immensity of the government's stimulus efforts, both fiscal and monetary, which now total a mind-boggling $4 trillion, appear to be taking hold in the economy and markets." Steinhilber finds foreign stocks to be particularly attractive here.

• Doug Kass made a bold and timely market bottom call in March ("perhaps even a generational low") and remains bullish, but now names some "nontraditional headwinds" to be wary of.

• Both Scott Grannis and Bill Luby see a bullish sign in volatility falling back significantly of late. And Grannis notes that industrial metal prices have bounced: "Maybe it's the return of the speculators, but even if it is, it reflects a return of animal spirits and suggests that monetary policy is easy enough for people to start releveraging."

• Hedge fund manager Dennis Gartman also uses industrial metals as a leading indicator, and as Market Folly notes, Gartman uses the Baltic Dry Index and the Transports as signs we're exiting recession. In response to these all moving upward recently, Gartman "wants to be long copper and Alcoa, and short the Yen," as the Japanese are big importers of commodities.

• Octagon Capital technical analyst Leon Tuey sees extreme pessimism in the current CBOE put/call ratio and that, pushed along with massive new liquidity from the Fed, are signs "we are not witnessing a bear market rally, but a bull market, the magnitude and duration of which will surprise everyone."

Jeff Miller of NewArc Investments sees a lot of skepticism about any positive economic signs. But Miller uses a remarkable sportsman's model to suggest we really may be moving upwards.

The 'Sucker Rally, Don't Buy It' Camp

Tim Iacono has his eye on unemployment data: "Conventional wisdom over the last fifty years or so is that, during recessions, stocks make a bottom at around the same time that monthly job losses peak... If past is precedent and if the recent January decline in nonfarm payrolls of 741,000 turns out to be the peak for this cycle, then it is reasonable to believe that the March low in equity markets could be a lasting bottom. However, if either of those are untrue -- that this downturn will be different than previous recessions or that job losses have not yet reached their peak -- then we are more likely to see new lows sometime later this year. In my view, that is the most likely scenario."

Tyler Durden believes quant funds drove up the market in March, in a "distortion rally" that lacked broad-based support: "Risk managers allocating capital to quants are prolonging and exacerbating the long-term bear markets in equities, creating an atmosphere of distrust and making markets unreliable tools of price discovery and playgrounds for rampant, Atlantic City-like speculation. In the words of both a NYSE chairman and a famous credit index trader, 'This will all end in tears.'"

Peter Cooper says "the absurdness of this sucker's rally ought to be obvious to all... Unemployment is still rising, house prices are still falling, and the fundamentals of bank balance sheets are still deteriorating."

• Likewise, Henry Blodget finds the "'suckers' rally' argument far more persuasive than the 'new bull market' one...About the best we can say is that, after 15+ years of overvaluation, stocks are finally priced to produce average returns over the next decade (9%-10% a year or so)."

• Investor Sajal has a nice roundup of how various market gurus (Marc Faber, George Soros, Jim Rogers, and more) see things here. Most believe that we're in for further downside, and that this rally is not to be trusted.

• Finally, James Picerno says the trend may now be our friend, but still: "Even if the recession has bottomed out, that's a long way from saying that a return to growth is imminent. It's likely that the economy will tread water for several quarters at the least once the economy stops contracting. And while the stock market appears inexpensive, or at least fairly priced, it's still too early to expect that profits are set to rebound any time soon."

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56 Comments

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  • __A_YAHOO_USER__ - Sunday, April 19, 2009, 10:53PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 4/5

    The whole point of the selloff was the disgust by (former) shareholders for grotesque executive compensation. Common stock has become worth less because of the blatent disregard by management for the share holders. This trend will continue for a long, long time.

  • Yahoo! Finance User - Sunday, April 19, 2009, 9:50PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 1/5

    Where is the article here. We can see this opinion crap from Tom, Dick and Harry on a 1/2 dozen TV programs everyday. Come on write something and enlighten us. Where is zero stars.

  • Tom - Sunday, April 19, 2009, 3:58PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 1/5

    very hard to read this article without cringing. please, yahoo do us a favor and drop this writer from the roster. i like some of the other yahoo experts, but the only thing this particular writer does well is write great headlines to lure me, yet again, to the article and then i am always totally disappointed.

  • Yahoo! Finance User - Sunday, April 19, 2009, 1:20PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 5/5

    Why would anyone buy into the Market when the prices have been inflated? The only time to buy was in Nov? I sold out in Jan when there was the re-bound.

  • bierterrasse - Sunday, April 19, 2009, 8:02AM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 3/5

    If you just made 26% in the greatest rally since 1934, are you preparing to take your profit now? Think what would happen to your leveraged tiny cost basis if you were to sell out now and repurchase later. If you own a stock at $1, every additional dollar is 100 percent return. Bear in mind (no pun intended), the trillion dollar stimulus package passed Congressional approval. How many actual investors just made 26% anyway? When sellers run out of ammunition or motivation, it only takes a few buyers to light the market's fuse. If sellers are not selling (which they could have done months ago), where is the next deluge of selling going to come from? Anyone selling now is truly a sucker. However, giving consideration to the bear's argument, truth is, this rally may have just ended because Obama shook hands with Chavez over the weekend, ending decades of farcical American foreign policy. OMG, better retreat to the basement with your can opener and start enjoying those 45-year-old green beans stored during the last Cuban missile crisis. Or better yet, join the Tea Parties to put an end to those overpaid bureaucrats, postmen, civil servants, and cradle-to-grave militarists. Or did I just name all the people who are attending those Tea Parties?

  • Playa - Sunday, April 19, 2009, 3:00AM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 4/5

    Oh yeah, if u think we are creating more jobs than loosing them then unemployment's dropping..but are we? If u think real estate values are cheapest now for u to buy a new home then property prices are stabilising..but are properties really that cheap yet? If you think the government's printing of money (buying it's own bonds) can continue endlessly (and people would have money to spend and businesses would be rescued by Govt money) then u should start plunging into equities NOW! PLEASE DO SO WHILE I'M WAITING TO UNLOAD ALL MY STUFF AT THE RIGHT PRICE TO CUT MY LOSSES.

  • Fillup - Saturday, April 18, 2009, 7:19PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 3/5

    On close examination it appears the government stimulus package is about helping Americans pay their union dues.

  • Yahoo! Finance User - Saturday, April 18, 2009, 6:51PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 1/5

    This article is only a list of links. Non-committal, uninformative, and a lack of any perspective. Who needs this in 2009. A waste of time.

  • Yahoo! Finance User - Saturday, April 18, 2009, 5:57PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 2/5

    The rally is for real, OK. It's a for real sucker's rally. I wouldn't be buying any stocks right now. Wall Street will just run the table on you and you'll be just another bagholder statistic.

  • Marcus M - Saturday, April 18, 2009, 3:10PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 1/5

    when i check yahoo finance to read some of the other articles, it makes me cringe to see that this author still works here. he's bad.

  • Yahoo! Finance User - Saturday, April 18, 2009, 8:54AM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 4/5

    Unemployment is still rising, real estate have not bottomed and the government is printing money. It is a suckers rally.

  • Yahoo! Finance User - Friday, April 17, 2009, 9:56PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 1/5

    "Has the time come to put new money to work in equities [given that the market is up 26%]" I'd say that, no, now is not the time. 26% ago was the time. Better to buy stocks before they go up 26% in 6 weeks than buying right after they go up that much.

  • Yahoo! Finance User - Friday, April 17, 2009, 7:09PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 1/5

    Mick Weinstein is an "expert" of nothing. I doubt he gets paid for this rubbish.

  • Samuel - Friday, April 17, 2009, 6:28PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 1/5

    this is awful writing and i still don't know why this "expert" still has a job with yahoo finance. give him credit for working his connections. his ideas, writing, reporting, whatever you want to call it is awful, Grade F.

  • Yahoo! Finance User - Friday, April 17, 2009, 5:44PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 1/5

    I love how Jared makes a living cutting and pasting other people's words.

  • Yahoo! Finance User - Friday, April 17, 2009, 5:35PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 1/5

    Again with Jared from Subway crap,,,,,,the better question is, IS Mikey for real? Thje answer is of course no, ALL he can do is cut and paste,,like a 5 year old from kindergarten,,,,get RID of this guy already....

  • Kevin - Friday, April 17, 2009, 5:26PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 1/5

    Um, Tyler Durden is a pseudonym from the book/movie Fight Club. If you did more than copy and paste, you might know that.

  • Dan S - Friday, April 17, 2009, 5:25PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 1/5

    Where was this guy 26% ago? I love how these "gurus" wait until a move has already happened before recommending people buy or sell. The market went down 26%? Maybe you should sell you stocks. The market went up 26%? Maybe it's time to buy! Following advice like this is guaranteed to whittle your portfolio down to nothing over time.

  • Valhalla360 - Friday, April 17, 2009, 5:18PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 1/5

    That's fine to summarize but to put your name on it as an author is innapropriate. So if it's up in May the guys who called it real are geniuses. If it's down the guys who called it false are geniuses. Put in your bets for June and spin the wheel. If you get lucky your a genius. More and more evidence says the "experts" are just those who guessed right more often than not. Put them in the same senarios again and they could just as easily come out the losers.

  • AFL Vet - Friday, April 17, 2009, 5:15PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 4/5

    One key indicator of where the financial world may be heading is being overlooked. The companies that provide ESSENTIAL goods and services to our society are under-weighted in the market indicies. Food producers, raw material producers and energy providers should constitute the lion's share of all necessary market guidance. If any of these sectors are in trouble, it doesn't really matter how well B of A or Goldman-Sachs is doing. Unfortunately, most of these market gurus feel that "wealth facilitators" are far more valuable than the actual "wealth creators". They are so very, very wrong.

  • Bernard - Friday, April 17, 2009, 4:59PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 1/5

    I am in the Mick is a cut and paste monkey camp. Can't Yahoo find a computer program to do his job?

  • Yahoo! Finance User - Friday, April 17, 2009, 4:37PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 5/5

    Thanks Mick for once again providing links to a useful range of opinions. What the naysayers seem to miss is that economic forecasting is a matter of weighing a statistical range of probable outcomes. Most seem to want some guru to give them an absolute answer as to where the future lies. A foolish attitude to say the least.

  • Yahoo! Finance User - Friday, April 17, 2009, 4:35PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 1/5

    I didn't know copying lines from other people qualified you as an author. I think Mick hit Control-C and Control-V about 8 times. This article would have gotten me detention in high school for Plagiarism.

  • Yahoo! Finance User - Friday, April 17, 2009, 4:24PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 2/5

    My longs are up, my shorts are down/But what will come, of cramming down?

  • Yahoo! Finance User - Friday, April 17, 2009, 4:16PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 2/5

    The rally is real, the economy is too/So I'd get it now, if I were you.--Anon

  • Yahoo! Finance User - Friday, April 17, 2009, 4:15PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 2/5

    Doesn't anybody realize that the average PE on the S & P 500 right now is about 120?!?!? Wake up!!

  • Ray - Friday, April 17, 2009, 3:51PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 1/5

    Here we have a NOBODY compiling a list of opinions of other NOBODIES. Value: Worthless

  • Yahoo! Finance User - Friday, April 17, 2009, 3:49PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 2/5

    like I never read this.

  • Yahoo! Finance User - Friday, April 17, 2009, 3:39PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 1/5

    The real story is "Is Mick Weinstein for real?

  • Yahoo! Finance User - Friday, April 17, 2009, 3:24PM ET  Report Abuse

    • Overall: 5/5

    Good cross section of opinions on where the market is going, not to mention the 4 Bad Bears chart. Basically you can take your pick - Was March a bottom or not! The answer is .....it depends.

Showing comments 6-35 of 56<< PreviousNext >>

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