The author is saying they need that much at a minimum. clearly we know if you back into the frand values provided to the courts the number is in the 100's of millions of dollars.
Take a step back and think logically. Would ZTE be fighting this hard over $50 million? clearly not. Many estimates have put it in the 4-500 mil range at a minimum and now with nda damages etc may be much higher.
Where the number lies, none of us know, but it is well beyond 50 mil and multiples of the current market cap.
If you dig through the case documents and dug through zte sales of handset and infra gear it is quite apparent that the number is in the 100's of millions.
I think perhaps the author of the article, while a lawyer is not up to speed on the case, but he is also not insinuating 50 mil is a legitimate value.
question for you ipin
This recent article states only $50M ???...
July 23, 2015 (Mimesis Law) — Vringo (VRNG) investors have been a beaten bunch since the devastating invalidation of Vringo’s trial-winning patents from the company’s long running saga with Google. While the fate of that case hangs by the slender reed of a potential Supreme Court review of that invalidation decision, the action has been heating up with respect to Vringo’s other headline patent efforts — its attempts to assert Nokia-sourced patents against Chinese electronics giant ZTE.
Vringo’s game plan against ZTE is a simple one. Attack ZTE using the Nokia patents in patent courts worldwide, with the hope of shutting down ZTE’s access to those markets one-by-one. In parallel, Vringo has been attempting to convince ZTE to accept a portfolio license to the Nokia portfolio on FRAND standard-essential patent licensing terms. But Vringo and ZTE has very different ideas about what a fair price for a license to the Nokia portfolio is. Vringo needs a major settlement for this effort to pay off, along the order of $50M+ at minimum. ZTE is resisting strongly.
Any compensation would likely be a gross number that is distributed to all shareholders based on their number of shares.
It would be very hard however, to argue that the reason the stock didn't hit $5 was because of zte. The reason this stock sunk so heavily is quite obviously (no pun intended), because of the CAFC decision on google.
While ZTE may or may not be monkeying with the share price, if they are found to have, I suspect owning expired warrants will do no one any good, and it really has only impact the share price from around 1sh to the .50 cents.
I have seen you post on ST and believe you are a shareholder so if there is compensation you would see something back. That being said, these types of cases, if it ever happens don't often lead to much compensation for shareholders , minimal at best.
That being said, should we finally get a fair settlement or better (as it now appears due to zte's missteps), I don't think you will care much about your warrants.
Please see my post on valuation thoughts on here and mention it to others on ST - it is important, as it will explain how the market will view this stock after a bankable / final win.
Lets say ZTE did illegally short/bash VRNG stock to keep price down. The warrants are now expired worthless, and if true that ZTE was illegally shorting/bashing/keeping the pps down, is there anything that can be done for the investors who lost all that money? Just curious, if legally there is or ever has been a similar situation where investors were compensated for lost $$$$ due to illegal activities of other parties shorting/bashing/keeping pps down....
MNKD has serious manipulation issues and collusion between hedge funds primarily Bank of America and MS. MNKD recently had to attend to some $100 million of notes by August 15. Just a few days prior to the release of the news the stock took a dive exactly to the price specified in the floor of the agreement. That was in conjunction with some Seeking Alpha negative articles and tweets from a specific blogger whose clearly working with the hedge funds. Of couse all that with these seriously deranged individuals who are now disturbing this board too. Same culprits. MNKD maagement also referred to this clear stock manipulation in a CC but seems to be tolerating it if not aiding it as proven by the dive in the stock price to exactly the floor days before the agreement was being made public. Of course the SEC is not interested. MNKD needs the same lawyer as VRNG to investigate but that may also uncover potential support from MNKD in this disgusting scheme.
I have done a great deal of work with corporate lawyers and litigators. I don't see anything in his bio specifically that suggests he's an expert in mediation.
Rather, his bio suggests, he is a litigator with anti trust and securities fraud experience.
This doesn't sound like a gun brought into settle but rather determine if they are in trouble in those two areas and thus help them with their defense if such issues arise.
For that reason, I don't think we can assume at all this means ZTE is ready to settle, moreover, it doesn't mean the other lawyers have been released as many on stwits seem to be inferring.
As I suggested, its just another pitcher for the rotation that they appear to be now needing.
I agree with you
For me, I don't read anything into the "dispute resolution" side of his area of specialty yet for this. It goes with litigation
"has a broad range of experience litigating complex commercial cases in federal and state courts, including substantial experience coordinating cross-border litigation and other litigation in multiple jurisdictions."
Commercial - I consider between two companies
Cross-Border - Of which this firm also has done things with a China emphasis
I'm not sure if this is to address recent allegations and evidence, or to dig the heels in for the overall case
I am not a lawyer though
there is similar issues w mnkd? Or just bashers? bashers are everywhere but there's the one individual on here that seems to have mental stability issues and posts on both threads - colton harden and his alternate egos.
He came on here today to swear, so I read his posts on other boards, just pure anger. That individual simply has mental problems and this appears to be one of his ways to release that pressure
I don't think mnkd has a serious as issue as here, ie proof?
From two additional sources
Mr. Jeff Butler has been employed at Clifford Chance LLP in the position of Partner. He serves in the litigation and Dispute Resolution department.
Name: Jeff Edward Butler
Status: In Good Standing
Licensed: 19 years
Practice In: Dispute Resolution
Law Office: Clifford Chance, LLP
Ah yes, but all law firms do that. He is not, from his experience the type to be an arbitrator. It appears that this hire is more a concern about anti trust and securities fraud - which are clearly now concerns of zte, if we are to take the next step from those pacers.
On another note, I see many on Stwits assuming the old firm was fired and this is ZTE's 'new' counsel. I don't read it as that, I see this as an additional group focused on the above
There have been no pacers suggesting the old counsel has been relieved of its duties. This is the one thing I dislike about stocktwits, alot of people just hyperbolzing and never explaining.
This site we have to deal with the trolls, Ihub deletions from the moderators, so this is why I choose to post here. At least a full explanation can be given.
What is your read on the new counsel? I believe they are 'additive/complementary' not replacements.
You missed it
You are looking within his practice area
But his overall practice area is defined as that
Clifford Chance, New York
Practice area: Litigation & .............. Dispute Resolution..................
Sector Industrials, Transport & logistics
Thanks ipinvestor22! Me too, I'm looking for some cheap shares but it appears that some momentum has been building and this stock is headed a bit higher!
Here it is.
"has a broad range of experience litigating complex commercial cases in federal and state courts, including substantial experience coordinating cross-border litigation and other litigation in multiple jurisdictions.
Jeff's representative cases have involved federal securities, antitrust and intellectual property law, as well as state-law claims for breach of contract, fraud and negligence. Jeff also has experience conducting internal corporate investigations and advising on securities and antitrust regulatory proceedings."
I don't see what Zig was referring to in dispute resolution, if you could point me to that it would be great but I do see "securities and antitrust'
Appears more is coming at ZTE and they are now expecting it or have already received the notice from VRNG.
I would like to see the number disclosed however, not 'confidential'. If the latter, we have to wait for a quarter or 2 depending on timing to determine what the numbers are, etc. This affects us as shareholders in a couple of ways.
1. It allows shorts out slowly, as the market while trying to guess at the value will always underestimate it, and the market dislikes uncertainty, so we won't see fair value for a while for that settlement.
2. If the shorts get out slowly, no squeeze and the price doesn't rise the way it should.
We need VRNG to make this public - my concern is they won't as they have others to go after. That being said, now that they have the leverage, they should see a settlement at the top end of their scale, therefore it may be to their benefit to make it public as a warning to other infringers.
I would hope the team is smart enough to see this as the anvil for future negotiations that they need. For example, if Huwaei is infringing and see's a number like $500 mil, I am quite certain, they sit down and talk very quickly.
If they don't see that number, and think VRNG doesn't have much cash, and can't deliver big numbers, well they have incentive to fight in court.
The whole purpose of going after Goog and ZTE first was to show the world / infringers, these guys mean business and can execute, and deliver LARGE wins for shareholders, and they can beat Goliaths.
If after you do that, you don't disclose, I will wonder what this management team is thinking!
Yes, they mention that many times and in fact, if you read document 178-10, you will see they actually mention "shorting" . The comments were more direct than just suggesting PRs to affect the share price.
Now, the question is, did they short, we outsiders don't know but could VRNG have proof? I would think that an SEC and DoJ investigation is already underway, and attaining market data is quite easy under subpoena. At that stage its gets quite easy to trace back who is authorizing trades. Even if its a HF or a group of traders, patterns emerge, once in front of a Judge, the threat of prison for ZTE is not something people will take lightly even if they are paid by zte, so they will come clean to save their own hides.
That is the key, do they have proof / can they find it. If so it will be easily to link them. We already know the name of 1 or 2 PR firms involved, again subpoenas, network traffic, etc will allow them to see posts, paid bashers indeed will face repercussions (PR firms will for certain here if they broke the law, and 'a coordinated attack on a stock for the intent of manipulating' most certainly is - needs to be proven but it appears as such from zte documents).
As for G, we have yet to see what their involvement was, but we have a name and she was involved as she received the material covered under the nda. Zte mentioned G assistance with the PR campaign and this could also lead to Anti-Trust violations, again to be determined.
ZTE would have been better off licensing day 1. They have opened themselves up to serious punitive damages, brought google into the mess, anti trust violations may have occurred. For this reason, as I have mentioned I cannot see zte wanting to see Judge Kaplan ever again, they will settle. Issue is VRNG now has all the leverage. Time is not an issue (Feb court date), they have enough money, and can let Kaplan BK ZTE if they so please.
Big win coming, I am hoping for a raid on monday to be able to add some cheap shares!
What about the stock manipulation accusations? The document from a ZTE employee directing a war on VRNG's stock? This is the first stock I've owned that StockTwits has actually cautioned investor's on! They cited possible manipulation of the share price. If the SEC gets involved in this and finds that ZTE,a Chinese company, purposely
tried to short the stock and manipulate the share price down with their paid bashers what will be the repercussions? Could Google possibly be linked to this?
I had never dealt with them on the corporate side but even just 10 years ago they were considered very elite, I suppose things change, either way not the issue here.
Yes agree, a settlement seems to be closing in, as I and others have said, I cannot see any logical company wanting to have Kaplan rule at this stage. He had warned them day one about penzoil / texaco,many here and on other boards called that hyperbole and at best simply a harsh warning to try and force a settlement, but it now appears they have painted themselves into that corner via their actions, certainly they don't want to find out.
Whether it takes 4,6,8, 10 weeks etc I do believe that they settle prior to Feb, and likely sooner the better as they likely don't want VRNG to continue fishing and uncover even more dirt.
We may have a perfect storm in this stock with a remand on Google and a settlement with ZTE!
Again, I see people on ST commenting that they 'just want to make their money back" - if you are on their can you direct them to my post on valuation here. I'd hate to see the shorts let out so easily have them ride it from 3.5 to .50 -1 then cover by 2-3 , then buy and ride it into 20-30, with the longs who've been in it for years make the retail mistake, simply holding to break even.
Please point them to my valuation post if you are on the site.