Sumo,......Your post is like a riddle, you need to be more focused and more precise. I was not able to capture the essence of your post..........Kid
this board is run by the utc pr dept. look at the research in the comments. how is your swiss next door neighbor. utc has broken the first rule of development. change one thing at a time , not five. then when things stop working you have one probable cause, not five five possible ones
GTF is and will be very important to Pratt, they expect engine volumes not seen since the 1980's. The A320-neo GTF is certified, the Bombardier GTF is certified. This is all good, also good is that Pratt is only 23% of UTC revenues. So, gloom and doom predictions for UTC based on the GTF's imaginary future calamities are just speculation without basis. I heard that the CT River froze over for the first time since 1934, if was 85 deg here in FL today...airborne, folks are always checking out of God's waiting room, so, there will be room for you when you decide to come down.................Kid
Believe whatever you want...I sense you do that often. And keep drinking your UTC kool aid. I'll stop back here when EIS actually occurs, and we'll see who knew what. This is how people get killed in the market...they become passionate cheerleaders for the stock instead of dispassionate objective analysts.
pqrt, your reply to my post sounds like your still in grade school. Post something with facts and not your opinion and I'll believe your not trying to get a pratt employee to respond to your post with proprietary information. Your either an ex "disgruntled" UTC employee or your trying to invoke a response from someone in the know about the programs details.
United Technologies Corp.'s Pratt & Whitney (East Hartford, CT, US) reported on Dec. 19 that its PurePower geared turbofan (GTF) engine for the Airbus A320neo family has successfully achieved US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) type certification. The PW1100GJM engine is the latest PurePower GTF engine model to be certified.
"We are proud to achieve FAA certification for the PW1100GJM engine for the A320neo as planned. This milestone further validates our GTF technology's reliability and robustness," says Greg Gernhardt, president, Pratt & Whitney Commercial Engines. "In advance of this accomplishment, our engine has already completed more than 50 flights on the A320neo flight test aircraft and has performed extremely well. We look forward to continued success as we support Airbus in their aircraft certification efforts."
The GTF architecture allows room for growth as demonstrated by the additional 2% fuel burn enhancement, which will further reinforce the A320neo's 20% fuel burn savings per seat by 2020. The composites-intensive PW1100GJM engine's technology also makes it the most powerful engine on the A321neo. The A321neo is available with a 35K thrust rating at altitude that will give airlines the capability to fly routes of greater distance while carrying more passengers or payloads.
The PurePower GTF engine offers customers a reduction of up to 75% in the noise footprint compared to today's aircraft. The engine also reduces regulated emissions by up to 50%, and will reduce CO2 emissions at a level equivalent to planting almost 1 million trees or taking 3 million cars off the road – per aircraft per year.
The PurePower engine family has completed more than 13,500 hours of testing, including 2,000 hours of flight testing and more than 26,500 cycles of testing. Pratt & Whitney now has two certified PurePower engine programs powering the next generation of aircraft. The PW1500G engine for the Bombardier CSeries aircraft achieved Transport Canada type certification in early 2013.
pqtw, you sound like a competitor of pratt fishing for inside information about the GTF program. Your prediction is way off base.As reported to the public, The Airbus NEO GTF has already been certified and will enter service late this year. The other platforms are on track as well.
B-787 commentary, "was the risk worth taking? Absolutely"....On the simple comparison of orders, the 787 is beating the A380, though Airbus has the satisfaction of knowing its superjumbo is slowly wiping the ageing Boeing 747 from the skies.Technical problems did ground a Norwegian Air Dreamliner last week in the US, but burning batteries and emergency landings are slowly becoming a more distant chapter in the 787's story. It is now approaching 100m miles in service and last month surpassed 1,000 orders. Tinseth says: "The technologies are being proven … Was it a risk worth taking? Absolutely."
And still more: Boeing's "Dreamliner" became a nightmare rather than a dream....but the problems were overcome. Nothing man has ever conceived of or built comes close to the complexity of a modern airplane...and at the heart of that complexity is the engine. There will be problems...let's just hope thay are not too dramatic and are manageable.
Re the gearbox...GE is following a different path, one requiring much higher temperature operation. I hope both engines are successful....but, the GE approach is not without risks.
pqr,....The gearing system for the GTF has been tested under load to exhaustion, gear fatigue, lube systems, attitude (nose up, nose down). This has been going on for about 30 years. As for the aluminum fan blades, this selection could only have been done after thorough design, analysis and metallurgical validation. Alcoa is planning to do more value adding to their product line and the aluminum fan blade is expected to be an important player. his isn't going to be like the RB-211 fan blades for the L-1011., I'm betting on Pratt and Alcoa with my wallet. From Alcoa:....Alcoa will supply parts for Pratt & Whitney’s jet engines, including the forging for the first-ever aluminum fan blade for jet engines, under a 10-year, $1.1 billion deal.
The aluminum fan blade will make the engine lighter, as well as more fuel and cost efficient, Alcoa says.
The forging was developed for Pratt & Whitney’s PurePower engines using an advanced aluminum alloy and a proprietary manufacturing process. Also for the PurePower engines, Alcoa is developing a fan blade forging using its most advanced aluminum-lithium alloy.
Under the deal, Alcoa will supply components for Pratt & Whitney’s PurePower PW1000G, V2500, GP7000 and several other regional jet and military engines. The PurePower engine will be used to power some of the world’s highest volume aircraft, including the next-generation Airbus A320neo.
Kid, your points are all correct of course. But, I think they actually support my case. Why? All those other engines programs you mentioned involved only incremental technology advances over prior engines...and yes, I agree that in this case you simply throw engineers at the problem, and everything is eventually all sorted out, and yeah, customers gripe but they take it as typical and customary. The GTF on the other hand involves huge technological leaps from other engine programs, and several of them...not just the gearbox, but the aluminum (yes, aluminum) fan blade, to cite but one example. These things are not just radical departures for PW, but for the industry as a whole. So when you point out the myriad of problems encountered in other incremental engine programs, and then reflect upon the radical leap the GTF represents, don't you think you need to allow for the possibility that the problems encountered and difficulty in shaking that engine out will be orders of magnitude more challenging than on prior programs? I believe that these issues are already well underway, but not being disclosed. And final food for thought: Given the gearbox is flight critical, its only going to take one in service event on the gearbox to ground the entire fleet, pronto. We'll see who's right here Kid. Gentleman's bet.
pqr,..............All new engines have problems, the JT-9D on the B-747, the RB-211 on the Lockheed 1011, GE CF-6. The GE CF-6 actually is responsible for fatalities, the United DC-10 fan disk failure which disabled the aircraft hydraulics and another incident where a CF-6 had an uncontained fan blade failure which penetrated the cabin and sucked out a passenger.. I am not aware of any incident where a Pratt engine was the primary cause of a fatal crash. To suggest class action lawsuits is reckless unless you have privileged information that is not public. Pratt, like the other engine companies, has many engineers working the development programs. The engineers are responsible to fix any problems that occur and to validate that the engine does what it's supposed to do. This is why engineers exist. The JT-8D had problems, one of the engineers on the program told me that you could blindfold someone, spin them around, and have them stick a pin to a cutaway of the JT-8D engine on the wall and that wherever the pin landed, the JT-8D was in trouble. The JT-8D was a huge success and a big money maker for Pratt. So, I do not share your pessimism.......Kid
uacflyer...I am not saying that the concept is flawed, and that it can not be made to work. I believe there to be very serious issues with the execution / program ... technical problems, cost problems, schedule problems ... and that UTC will go through hell and back before this is all said and done. Much more so that what GE went through when they introduced the composite fan blade in the GE90...that was a mini trip to hell and back, and many heads rolled within GE over it....and it was a big problem for a long time...but they eventually sorted it all out. I would bet a lot of money that the engine is not certified on time...not even close...and as you know, there are steep penalties from the airlines to the airframers, and back to the engine manufacturer, when that happens, and things get pretty nasty. In my opinion, we are likely to see public release from Airbus on this before we see it from UTC. Re PW working on GTF for 20 years: I hear you, but I am sure you know that in June there were two announced engine failures, in spite of this 20 years of work. Re credible information, would rather not address that in a public forum. But I will suggest that you listen carefully for what you DON'T hear...very very quiet of late on GTF front re press releases / updates....very inconsistent w the committed to timetable for EIS.
pqrtw.....is your gloomy assessment just opinion...or do you have credible information of some kind...any kind? Pratt has been working on the GTF for nearly 20 years.....it has been tested to death. GE is following a different approach. But, it's noteworthy that the third engine company, RR, which is not involved in the engine battles at the moment,...has opted for a geared turbofan for their next engine. That is, they are following Pratt's approach rather than GE's.
Sumo,.......We need you to pee in a jar for a check up. The GTF is going to be high volume for Pratt, so, they do need to adopt contemporary technologies for economic efficiencies. Many years ago, I spoke with an hourly Pratt guy and he told me that he was counting on the GTF for his future. If the GTF delivers approximately 20% fuel burn savings and approximately 50% sound reduction, what's not to like?....Kid
I am betting Hayes will be around long enough to get the stock price up to where I need it so I can sell more to have a more secure retirement. There are no guarantees in life (or death)
My opinions: I predict that the GTF engine program will become viewed an overhyped, mismanaged debacle that brings the company to its knees. I believe there are BIG issues...and that the BOD knows about them...but they aren't being disclosed to the public / shareholders, even though they are likely material events in the eyes of SEC that require reporting. I personally think this was reason that Louis and Alaine were let go, and why the President of PW Commerical Engines (Brantner) left a few months back, and why Hess (former PW President) was brought back out of retirement (perhaps to replace Adams in near future). I also think that the program issues will just be the first wave of hurt on the stock, and that the second wave of hurt will be the shareholder class action lawsuits. I'm taking my profits and hunkering down in my foxhole for the next several months....