I think a delay would cause more anxiety and risk thus depressing share price further. Since iam out looking in a delay works for me. But it would hurt the long term holders who will have to sell units to pay taxes. Rich says this year and I bet on this year.
Considering the severe tax consequences I have been hoping that some of the lawsuits might delay the buyout until after the first of the year. Does anyone have data to support this scenario.
Rocky, It's a tough business and it's happened before. If I was on the wrong end of the deal I would not be happy . But I traded KMP for years and did very well while never drawing a Distribution. Think about Enron and the other multitude crooks and this deal looks good. But I do think the PPS will be soft for awhile as investors figure out how much to sell to pay the tax.
MrPhil, the whole reason that I invested in this company was so I could defer the tax AS PROMISED BY THE MLP STRUCTURE AND U.S. LAW. The law says that I can avoid tax when I die, and this was part of my estate planning. Now Richard Kinder, formerly of ENRON and their shenanigans, finds a new way to screw the investors by taking away what was promised, and taking my tax deferral to use for his own benefit. Do you also support taking away tax-deferred status from IRA holders, even though you promised them tax-free Income? You sound like a paid shill of KMI. Yes, KMI shareholders paid their tax on their dividend income. I am a KMP partner who created a lot of that income. And now I have to pay tax, not at dividend rates, but at regular income rates on the return of the capital I invested. So to me, it is KMI and Richard Kinder who look like vultures, not buzzards.
Just focusing on the ETF's, aren't they simply following an index - Cushing or whatever? I didn't think they had any choice to sell or hold. As long as KMP continues to be in whatever index the ETF/ETN follows, I think they continue to hold. Actively managed mutual funds may be different, of course.
Larry_the_genius, Sorry to ,interrupt but KMP Short Interest is at its lowest point this year. But I think the price will go down some more because many will have to sell to pay taxes and merger fear is replacing merger euphoria. Also interest rates spiked at bit today and dropped all Dividend stocks. Shorting at $99 is a good idea ,but now ? not so sure.
the catch words is half wit. most of the holders dont even know what the got. and the others are the ones trying to separate them from their shares at a lower price
In most of our businesses we operate like a giant toll road and receive a fee for our services, generally avoiding commodity price risk. Our customers include major oil companies, energy producers and shippers, local distribution companies and businesses across many industries. We invest billions of dollars each year to build
Anybody ever consider ETF's/Mutual Funds who are specifically in the MLP game are booking profits before the combine to take advantage of the pricing and before it becomes a must sell?
Sjohns , You might read you own posts before calling anyone a cry baby. If this is your worst experience in the stock market ,you have lead a charmed life. I do wish you good fortune in getting your act together for getting the best results in this situation. IMO if you can handle one K1 correctly you can handle a dozen. Lizahaugn says she files 50 K1 with TurboTax software at a rate of 5 minutes each. Trying to do by hand would be a chore but I could do it. Good luck Phil
Why don’t you read instead of reflexively responding? Are you like big baby phil who always has to get in the last word? If so, go ahead and you can have it after this post.
I did NOT pick “out the date from a few years ago when it last peaked.” Now, for the second time, I wrote that I used the last four years specifically because that is what capone752 stated in his post. (And, by the way, September 2010 was certainly no peak price.) I also pointed out that the underperformance has been going on even longer than that. You seem to have some sort of compulsion to defend your investment, even though you apparently agree completely: “I don't need to buy the best performing MLP, KMP/KMR is just too big to outperform others.” So, we agree about performance! I merely point out that Rich Kinder’s companies have been substantial underperformers in recent years, yet you and others here get all worked up about that……even though you agree that it is factually true!
I have no problem with you being satisfied with your KMR investment. Why are you so defensive just because I post some facts that even you agree with?
And, to set the record straight about the “too big to outperform,” EPD is larger by market cap than KMP and KMR combined; WMB together with its partnerships is comparable in size to the combined KMI/KMP/KMR. (And, since so many here accept automatically the self-projected distributions for KMI going forward for 2015-2020, you might want to check out the self-projected distributions for WMB over the same time period.)
“I personally am not smart enough to handle dozen k-1s every year.” You said it, not I.
"You sell, I buy and let's see who comes out ahead in the end."
I don't need to buy the best performing MLP, KMP/KMR is just too big to outperform others. KMR specifically is better to me then buying a dozen MLPs. Also Rich Kinder is well aware of the recent under-performance, that is the reason for KMI buying out KMR, KMP, EPB.
I personally am not smart enough to handle dozen k-1s every year. KMR solves all this and has done me just fine.
Also picking out the date from a few years ago when it last peaked and then claiming it has not done much since then, well if I had a crystal ball, I could do better then I have. But I don't so I just plod along with KMR which will become KMI in 2015.
BTW I did own the old KMI and know about the LBO. I did not buy into the new KMI, but now with the conversion and my cost basis. I will own a few more shares of KMI once again.
i think the sell off is due to the end of summer calendar sales. big boys sell off their oil holdings and want you think that the world is coming to a end once again. every body panics and the lemmings jump ship. soon weather will change, and heating oil demand will go up, more trucks will be needed to deliver the xmas goods to stores, and lower gas price will bring more demand. i personally am waiting for my kmi shares and the 2 dollar divy. each share of kmp will deliver me approx 4.40 after jan 1. then the 10 percent increase will kick inthe first year making 4.84. within the first couple of years my divy will be more than currently receiving, and with those divy increases come capitol gain. when my new kmi shares post their first 70 print ill sell some and laugh all the way to the tax man and bank. as for dying and leaving the kids some investments, they are on their own. daddys going rving.
First, capone752 wrote that he was in it for four years, so that's what my post was about. Second, the point was that Kinder has badly underperformed in recent years. Yes, he did well in the early years ( from 90's to early-to-mid 2000's), but he has been mediocre (and VERY share/unit holder UNfriendly) in recent years (and, yes, the calculations above also included the recent bounce after the 08/10/14 annoucement). Compare to EPD, MMP, PAA, MWE, etc. etc. and he is an underperfomer for at least five years and often longer. So, the "best of breed" argument does not hold water. Sounds like something that clown Cramer (who didn't seem to even know what an MLP was until a few years ago) would say.
I started investing in MLP's/PTP's in 1998 and currently own more than dozen. KMP was an outperformer only in the early years.