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Koninklijke Philips N.V Message Board

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  • Their public communication about the future of their role in the lighting business is difficult to make sense is confusing. They hare selling part of the business, maybe having a stock offering for part of the business. It's seem like a lightbulb joke.

  • Reply to

    CWN600

    by fstout57 Jan 1, 2016 12:08 PM

    Shareholders, and potential shareholders favor the Lighting division, but apparently the company think otherwise.

  • The CEO replacement search is in full swing...

  • I have been investing since 1987 and pick my own stocks. I have never been on a board with such an interesting and knowledgeable responder. Most bash, cuss, belittle, etc. How nice of you to take your time to respond with such useful information. I thank you for all the time you took to explain your position and opinions. Hope this stock turns out to be a safe investment for me. I bought it in my IRA account and will see how it goes. I also own GE and it has gone up $6.00 a share since I purchased plus has paid me dividends for years. I used to own 13 preferred utilities but all have been called except one that I still hold. The dividends were great but all got called at a premium. I am retired so don't want much risk anymore. Good Luck to you and Happy New Year.

  • Reply to

    CWN600

    by fstout57 Jan 1, 2016 12:08 PM

    I don't know if the Ferrari spinoff is working differently than most spinoffs because Fiat's a foreign company or what (Fiat is actually incorporated in England, not Italy).

    "if we won't own any of the company buying the lighting division, would we get a cash payout or continue to own the same amount of shares of PHG?"

    You'll still own the same number of PHG shares no matter how they divest the lighting division. It's highly unlikely you'd get a cash payout, as the company has already said that the proceeds of the spinoff will be used in other parts of the company, though that specific language is suspect. "Proceeds of the spinoff" is kinda bogus language. Strictly speaking, a spinoff is the distribution of shares in a new company to parent company shareholders, in which case there are no proceeds to the parent company. I assume that what they meant by that language (which may have been the fault of a business reporter, not the company) is that the proceeds of the minority stake sold in the IPO would be invested in other divisions. The company gets nothing when it spins off shares to PHG shareholders.

    In the unlikely event that you did get some kind of cash payout from the divestiture of the lighting division, you'd still own the same number of shares in PHG. But just like dividends, the price of PHG would be adjusted down accordingly.

    If you do get shares in the new company, be aware that the price of PHG will be reduced by the value of the the spinoff shares ... when? Yes, exactly -- on the ex-distribution date for the spinoff shares. That's one of the prime reasons for having a minority share IPO -- it establishes a market for the new shares so that a fair market value will exist at the time of the spinoff, so that the parent company shares can be accurately reduced in price to account for the value of the company spun off.

    No, I've never owned this stock, but I look at many boards in the process of trying to find something to buy.

  • Reply to

    CWN600

    by fstout57 Jan 1, 2016 12:08 PM

    "What do you know about the lighting spinoff?"

    Not much, because they haven't released the details yet.

    "Would we own some of the new company too?"

    That depends on how they divest the lighting part. They keep mentioning "spinoff," but they also said the divestment would start by selling a minority stake. It's likely they'll do both. When spinning off a big stand-alone company, it's not unusual to first sell a minority stake via an IPO. That establishes a market for the shares, easing the spinoff of the rest of the company to the parent company shareholders. A prime example is under way right this very minute, with Fiat spinning off Ferrari. A few months back Fiat had an IPO for Ferrari, which established a market for the shares. Any day now they'll spin off the rest of Ferrari to existing Fiat shareholders. That sounds like what PHG is going to do with the lighting division.

    Either way, PHG shareholders don't get screwed. If the lighting is sold in an IPO, PHG gets the proceeds, which shareholders would own as their proportional share of the company. If the lighting is spun off, the PHG shareholders get all the stock in the new company, plus still own their PHG shares. If it's a combination of the two, that's fine as well.

    If they spin off the lighting division and you're still a PHG shareholder when it happens, be aware that spinoffs of new shares are not handled like dividends. They are handled quite different and if you've never seen it happen before, it's very confusing. Most often the ex-date for the spinoff is not before the record date, as with normal dividends, but after the record date. And when an ex-date is after the record date, it's also after the payment date, which is doubly confusing. But it's done that way all for very good reasons, and nobody gets screwed in the process. Only on rare occasions do spinoffs not work that way, and Ferrari is one of those rare occasions. It's even screwier. ...And I've run out of room in this post.

  • Reply to

    CWN600

    by fstout57 Jan 1, 2016 12:08 PM

    "wasn't sure if they would pay 4 qtrs. of dividends for only owning the stock approx. 30 days before the div. date since the ex date is usually the month before"

    Yeah, I get it. Are you aware that you need own a stock only one day to get a dividend? You can buy a stock the day before the ex-date and sell it ON the ex-date and get the dividend. With all dividends on all stocks. But again, because of the price adjustment on the ex-date (whether it's visible or not!), it's most often pointless to do so. The only times it pays off is when the stock jumps on the ex-date for other reasons.

  • Reply to

    CWN600

    by fstout57 Jan 1, 2016 12:08 PM

    "I looked up the past four years and the div. was in May"

    How can that be when in 2015, 2014, and 2013 the dividend was paid in June?

    "As for the stock price dropping the amt. of the div. not always so."

    No, it's not always so, but it does happen far more often than not. As for the example you gave of PHG's May dividend, you compared the wrong two prices. You compared the adjusted closing price on the day before the ex-date to the closing price on the ex-date. The comparison should instead be between the unadjusted closing price on the date before the ex-date to the opening price on the ex-date (not the closing price on the ex-date). It closed May 7th at $28.12 (you used the adjusted close, which is the real close with the dividend already subtracted, which is not a valid comparison). It opened on the ex-date at $27.41. That' s a difference of 71 cents, not the 45 cents you came up with. Note that I said in my previous post that the price adjusts by the amount of the dividend, but qualified that by adding, "the only exceptions being if market action drives it higher or lower." With the previous ten days' average daily trading range in PHG being 31 cents, the 71 cents adjustment at the open on the ex-date was obviously within the average daily trading range, minus the dividend. So PHG did indeed adjust down by the amount of the dividend on the ex-date. The other 19 cents was simply lost in the stock's normal daily trading range. When dividends are less than a stock's daily trading range, the adjustment is completely lost within that range, even though the adjustment is always made by the exchanges to all non-restricted outstanding orders for the stock.

  • Reply to

    CWN600

    by fstout57 Jan 1, 2016 12:08 PM

    What do you know about the lighting spinoff? Would we own some of the new company too? It is supposed to happen the 1st half of this year although in 2014 they said it would spin off in 2015. What's the delay and if we won't own any of the company buying the lighting division, would we get a cash payout or continue to own the same amount of shares of PHG? I tried to research all of this but nowhere can I find any info regarding what the current shareholders would get when this lighting division is spun off. How did you find my post when you don't own shares of Philips? Did you own it in the past?

  • Regarding the May div. I looked up the past four years and the div. was in May so I assume that would be the next date but I also looked years beyond that and sometimes you had to wait another month, that's true. As for the stock price dropping the amt. of the div. not always so. I have purchased many stocks for the dividend and also got a price appreciation to boot. Take this stock for example: May 7th of 2015 this stock closed at $27.21. May 8th after the 90 cent div. the stock closed at $27.66 which is only a 45 cent drop. By May 15th the stock recovered to $28.33 so you not only got the div. of 90 cents but an additional 67 cents per share one week later on May 15th (closed $28.33). If you sold you are okay but if you held you would be down quite a bit from yesterday's closing price. This is the first stock I have purchased that pays only once a year so wasn't sure if they would pay 4 qtrs. of dividends for only owning the stock approx. 30 days before the div. date since the ex date is usually the month before.

  • "How do they figure the div. payout if you owned for a few months since they only pay once a year?"

    The exact same way all dividends work -- if you buy the stock before the ex-date and hold until the ex-date, you get the dividend. All of it.

  • "The ex div date reads May 8th 2015"

    Yes.

    "That seems odd"

    No, it doesn't.

    "Usually it's just one month before the dividend payout."

    Ex-dates can be less than a month or more than a month too. The payment date was 6-10-15.

    "If I bought today it looks like I won't get one?"

    Well, you certainly won't get the one that was paid out six months ago. The next one won't be declared for a while yet.

    "How long have you owned this stock?"

    I don't own this stock.

    "Today was my first purchase but thought over 3% was a nice dividend to invest some profits in."

    Are you not aware that the price of a stock is almost always reduced by the amount of a dividend on the ex-date (the only exceptions being if market action drives it higher or lower), so buying a stock simply to get one dividend is pointless?

    "Will I get 3% on my 1000 shares for 4 months since I bought today and the next payout is May?"

    How do you know the next dividend is in May? Only two of the last 13 dividends were in May, and the next one hasn't been declared yet. Whenever it happens to be, you'll get the full dividend next time, providing that you hold the stock until the ex-date. But there's no way to tell if the next dividend will be 3% until it's declared.

  • P.S. How do they figure the div. payout if you owned for a few months since they only pay once a year? I have only purchased stocks that pay each month (funds) or they pay quarterly. Will I get 3% on my 1000 shares for 4 months since I bought today and the next payout is May?

  • The ex div rate reads May 8th 2015. That seems odd. Usually it's just one month before the dividend payout. If I bought today it looks like I won't get one? How long have you owned this stock? Today was my first purchase but thought over 3% was a nice dividend to invest some profits in. Any info you have on this stock would be helpful. I have read many reports and opinions regarding the prospects for 2016 but would like your take. Thanks for your reply. Not much action on this board.

  • Just once a year. Not uncommon for European companies.

  • Does this pay a div. once a year? Is the ex div. date correct? Doesn't seem right so don't know if YHOO has updated info.

  • Reply to

    Samsung and Apple Buried Philips

    by barryobamaisafailure Jul 7, 2015 10:44 AM

    PHILIPS goes HP? Self destruction...

  • Reply to

    Samsung and Apple Buried Philips

    by barryobamaisafailure Jul 7, 2015 10:44 AM

    PHILIPS goes KODAK?

  • Reply to

    Samsung and Apple Buried Philips

    by barryobamaisafailure Jul 7, 2015 10:44 AM

    They invested almost $3 Billion to expand fixture business, it became the biggest of the biggest, and it's never mentioned, BIZARRE! Became even the biggest in the U.S. beating out Acuity and GE on their home turf, then they start dismantling it....then they sell off auto lamps and LED components? WHY? With autolamps div, means they deal with all the car makers, why sell it? How do you sell more LED and stuff to car makers, if you ain't doing it, WEIRD!

  • Reply to

    Samsung and Apple Buried Philips

    by barryobamaisafailure Jul 7, 2015 10:44 AM

    After 125 years in business, the last 10 have been a disgrace, who is advising PHILIPS, to self destruct? Every product line they had is gone, they where #1 in so many and lost it....it's really weird. Philips brothers Anton and Gerard are twisting in their graves, how can you get rid of the BASIC business that started Philips? Wall Street destroys another. Lighting is making money, it's the biggest in teh world, in the stuff, and poof! Same with tv's they where biggest in the world at one time, invented most of the stuff in tv's then just let it go....and the execs got massive pay checks to destroy it all. WOW. GE or Siemens will swallow what's left...I really thought it was gonna go the other way, Philips blew it...who turns off the lights, while its' still PHILIPS lights. ASML, NXP,Polygram,Taiwan Semi,Panasonic! all because it was created by PHILIPS, poof all gone. LG was 50 owned in Displays by Philips, then they give it all to LG? Why did GE and Siemens grow, doing all the same stuff Philips did? Philips and GE should have merged decades ago, it woulda been a major player

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