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Sino Clean Energy Inc Message Board

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  • Reply to

    They will be revoked in 6 days!

    by lbcb321 Apr 7, 2015 12:27 PM

    lbcb, thanks for posting this!

    I'm not sure how much longer this YMB will remain active after the stock's registration is revoked, but I'm going to miss you guys.

    One minor comment: my recollection is US taxpayers can take a loss deduction for worthless shares on Sched-D same as if they were sold for $0 -- but as with charitable contribution deductions -- the burden of documentation lies with the taxpayer... so if you're audited, or the IRS questions the loss, it could well be disallowed if you don't have proper substantiating documentation. (Though my guess is the odds are pretty low -- particularly if the loss is relatively small.)

    However, the current owners who would seem to have a fortuitous advantage in that there is a court-appointed Receiver looking out for the best interests of shareholders. (And folks on this board have reported he is easy to get in contact with.) So a quick note to RS should get you a letter stating what value he ascribes to your equity interest in his potential future recovery.

    On a more pragmatic note, I think this loss could be worth far more than the tax deduction -- if it leads to a better appreciation for the need to be skeptical, and highly rigorous, when investing in companies where the Officers and assets are located in a foreign country (particularly one were you have no legal rights to ownership). Like you kinda gotta be willfully credulous to think people running a profitable business in China needed to go through all the added effort and expense to raise new capital from US "investors," without also being fully aware they could essentially abscond with all the money they raised (after paying unseemly huge fees to their lawyers, CPAs, and stock promoters) with little risk of penalty. And that lesson should be worth a lot.

  • Reply to

    They will be revoked in 6 days!

    by lbcb321 Apr 7, 2015 12:27 PM

    You all will get nothing for your shares NADA, NADA, NADA like the folks at CBEH. Very sorry for you guys.

  • On March 24, 2015, the Securities and Exchange Commission (Commission) issued an
    Order Instituting Proceedings (OIP) against Respondents, pursuant to Section 12(j) of the
    Securities Exchange Act of 1934. The OIP alleges that Respondents have securities registered
    with the Commission and have not filed periodic reports. A hearing is scheduled to begin on
    April 13, 2015.

    On April 6, 2015, the Division of Enforcement (Division) sent this Office declarations
    representing that Respondents were all personally served with the OIP by March 27, 2015, in
    accordance with 17 C.F.R. § 201.141(a)(2)(ii). Accordingly, Respondents’ Answers to the OIP
    are due by April 6, 2015. OIP at 3; 17 C.F.R. § 201.220(b). As of the date of this Order, no
    Respondent has filed an Answer.

    I POSTPONE the hearing scheduled to begin on April 13, 2015, and ORDER a
    telephonic prehearing conference at 11:00 a.m. EDT, on April 13, 2015. I will default any
    Respondent that does not file an Answer, participate in the prehearing conference, or otherwise
    defend the proceeding. 17 C.F.R. § 201.155(a), .220(f), .221(f).

    Look it up for yourself at Do a search for the file number: 3-16456

    Do you understand what this means? "I will default any Respondent that does not file an Answer, participate in the prehearing conference, or otherwise defend the proceeding."

    You were given a great gift in that the SEC did not first suspend and then begin revocation proceedings. You are too clueless to be an individual investor if you take nothing for your shares instead of something... ANYTHING.

    Another point for you to look up. You can't even take the loss if you still own the revoked shares. According to the IRS, they still have "value" even if the exact value is hard to determine. You will need to jump through hoops and get an attorney involved to eventually be able to take the loss. Don't believe an anonymous poster on a public message board... you need to verify this for yourself.

  • Reply to

    SEC Activity Related to Sino Clean Energy, Inc.

    by china_s2 Mar 25, 2015 2:21 PM

    I dunno, I'm wondering if Jim won't get the last laugh...

    I mean sure, his shareholdings will be worthless, and the small holders and Chinese shareholders will get wiped out -- but James did get himself anointed Chairman of Tongchuan Suoke Clean Energy... that clearly wasn't arbitrary.

    So there were those few big factories staged with lots of heavy equipment for photo ops and investor tours... perhaps JS has just enough authority to seize and liquidate some barely-used grinders and mixers. Let's say the stage props cost a few million $... even if he recovers 30%, that's a nice payday. Maybe split it with some of the other 13-D'ers, certainly hefty fees to RS -- but still could walk off with more than his stock cost. (He's a winner! And such an honorable gentleman, too.)

    And with the stock revoked, and the default NV corp dormant (notice the Receiver never quite got around to replacing the NV Board or Officers, or paying the filing fees) -- who would know, or be able to go after the Chinese sub-sub-holdings.

    Big tip-off was when a Weinberg-affiliate got placed on the Board of Wiscon Holdings -- the plan was to keep everything "safe" in the family... no doubts, no questions, no info. Assets quietly disappear into consulting fees, and shares just cease to trade. No fuss, no tears.

    (And apparently, no apologies.)

  • Reply to

    Takes 10 pennies to sell...

    by lbcb321 Mar 26, 2015 3:11 PM

    I agree, china_s2. They can extend things a bit just by responding within 10 days and appearing at the hearing even if there are no merits to appealing the decision. If they don't respond within 10 days, they will probably get the order of revocation at the hearing.

  • Reply to

    Takes 10 pennies to sell...

    by lbcb321 Mar 26, 2015 3:11 PM

    Here again, whether by design, or as is more likely, due to bureaucratic ineptitude / indifference, the SEC has afforded those who wish to do so with an opportunity to exit before the revocation occurs.

    While CBEH managed to drag the process out to 182 days (from OIP to revocation), I doubt whether Seiden would fare so well. In CBEH's case, they had an auditor engaged, had an articulable plan to regain compliance, had the Chinese management's cooperation with the auditors, etc., and it appears the SEC was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. While it may be coincidental, the proceeding against CBEH wasn't finalized until it was clear they wouldn't be able to execute their plan to get the delinquent filings up to date.

    In SCEI's case, I don't see even a pretense of cooperation from the Chinese side, which would seem a necessary pillar on which to found an argument for leniency with the SEC.

  • Reply to

    SEC Activity Related to Sino Clean Energy, Inc.

    by china_s2 Mar 25, 2015 2:21 PM

    "Civil penalties"

    Funny to use the term "civil" in conjunction with Chairman Sutter.

  • And then a manipulator attempts to "reset" the price higher. In their delusional minds, they can value their shares at this inflated price even though they can't sell them up there.

    I predict Seiden attempts to delay the revocation process so he can milk as much in fees out of this as he can. In the end... all is irrelevant. They WILL be revoked and current shareholders will be put out of their misery. LOL... not quite. Go to the CBEH board and see how they are still there even though that stock has been revoked. Quite a pathetic display of denial.

  • Reply to

    SEC Activity Related to Sino Clean Energy, Inc.

    by china_s2 Mar 25, 2015 2:21 PM

    Don't worry, Sutter will have his buddy attorney Eugene Licker write a letter to the SEC asking them not to revoke since it would harm current shareholders. Wait, he already did that with CBEH and the SEC said it was irrelevant and revoked them anyway. The official SEC position was:

    "Even if China Integrated should get all of its delinquent filings submitted before this Court rules on summary disposition, the respondent's securities registration should still be revoked based on its violations of the Exchange Act. In Absolute Potential, Inc., the Commission revoked the registration of the delinquent issuer despite the fact that it became current during summary disposition briefing. It is necessary to deter Absolute and other issuers from disregarding their obligations to present accurate and timely information to the investing public until spurred by the institution of proceedings. Deterrence is meaningful only if a lengthy delinquency, in the absence of strongly compelling circumstances regarding the other Gateway factors, results in revocation."

    This will be no different. It WILL be revoked regardless of any games they play to try to stall it. CBEH shareholders got as high as 11 pennies before it was revoked, but it is amazing how many refused the gift and ended up with nothing instead of something. It will be interesting to see how many SCEI shareholders take nothing instead of something.

    As a reminder to Sutter and the other 13D filers... you are breaking the law if you sell your shares without filing an amendment to your 13D. Your trading revenue will be disgorged and you will be subject to civil and criminal penalties. You are being watched.

  • I posted this earlier over on the ABAT board:

    Sino Clean Energy, Inc. (SCEI) was the subject of an OIP issued yesterday by the SEC threatening revocation for filing delinquencies. In this instance, the SEC apparently elected not to suspend trading. (See SEC release 34-74574)

    Other Chinese issuers included in the same the OIP are Bama Biotech, Inc., China inSure Holdings, Inc., and China Nutrifruit Group, Inc. (CNGL).

    Note that during 2014, the average time elapsed from OIP issuance to revocation was 81 days. The average so far this year is 20 days, but the sample size is so small that I doubt its validity. Using the 2014 figure as a guide, there would seem to be a high probability that SCEI will be revoked in the next 90 days.

  • These American monies we want them back in our accounts at the level they first was or greater.

  • They had a 3-way with Ren. A moment none of them will never forget. Everything they had was disbursed and disseminated.

    The special gift from Ren was when he divulged "that Thai thing."

    A moment of inspiration came when Sutter said, "Hey, that's not slurry," when Seiden produced something unexpected.

    Now, Ren and the highest levels of government in the people's republic are studying all kinds of slurry-like businesses, including anything they can work on together.

    Just remember, the Federal court in Reno has jurisdiction over Nevada's legal brothels, but not over anything in China.

    Anyone want to form a new 13D group to sue Sutter for malfeasance, failure to act in accordance with the court order, and other sundry indiscretions?

  • =Jim, I noticed you've deleted all your posts under "jimsutter10"

    I PROVED that Sutter profited from insider information given to him by the ABAT Corporate Secretary. Sutter removed his posts from there, also, but I quoted them in my replies. Sutter was told of BOD changes, upper management changes, the timing of release of an "internal audit" and other things which were well-documented. Sutter even commented he was probably "burning bridges" by revealing what he was being told. Sutter profited from this advance knowledge when he dumped his shares immediately after the pop when the information he had in advance was released to the public. It is all documented on the ABAT board. He threatened ABAT with a new alias he made up called shareholdermeeting. He admitted to it when I busted him when he replied to me without changing aliases.

    Sutter is a snake and turned to SCEI to force action through the courts after abandoning all the ABAT people he promised to "help". Sutter denies it and threatens me, but he knows I can back it all up. His posts are not "gone"... we just can't view them anymore. His contemporaneous words are still alive in MY posts with my meticulous style of exactly quoting what I am replying to.

    He had multiple aliases over at CBEH, also. In my opinion, he should be investigated by the SEC and there should be some disgorgement of trading profits. Yahoo can verify which aliases were connected to his IP address and how much he claimed to have insider information and how often it was true.

  • Jim, I noticed you've deleted all your posts under "jimsutter10"

    Is that because you're now the Chairman of Tongchuan Suoke Clean Energy Co. Ltd., a Chinese corporation that may (or may not) be connected to the US public corporation SCEI? (Do you need to be careful now of the accuracy of your public statements?)

    I've always enjoyed your informative updates here. (Many have called you a gentleman, or better.)

    I'd certainly welcome some news of your findings with the Chinese operations... are you in agreement with the New Year's message just posted on SCEI's Suoang website?

    And on the subject of posters -- what happened to our uber-informed brntjns1234: no posts in 3 months??? (And what about threegorgeousdamn? Not a peep in 6 months???)

    What's happening to this thriving community of true believers? Could Ren have bested y'all??? Dang!!!

  • It seems SCEI is getting out of the slurry business.

    Will Seiden (Robin Hood) and his merry men (Sutter et al), distribute proceeds from final production, or will they line their pockets with whatever scraps and crumbs they can pick up?

    Has chairman Sutter found a girlfriend in Shanghai, or perhaps in Dongguan? Maybe he makes love to her behind the locked doors of the bk forfeited factory. The paper factory sharing the seized lot emits an odor, so no one would know.

    Anyway, now that SCEI has announced they are following the leadership of mother China, Sutter seems likely to have far less direct responsibility. He can enjoy his time in the Middle Kingdom.

    Should be fun to see his announcement after just a little more time:

    Dear shareholders,
    Sorry. We shut it down. The company has nothing but bad debt and undelivered coal. I'm liquidating everything, but after payments to me, Seiden and the group, SCEI will be a valueless shell. We will work to eliminate the obligations through bankruptcy, and then put the shell on the market for $20k or so.

  • This seems to say:
    1. Remember our last report, where we said it is too hard to compete against local slurry garages? We meant it, and now other fuel prices are down, so we have gone out of business.
    2. Foreign investors don trust us, so we can't get any money.
    3. The government, in all her communistic glory, is guiding us now. We will do whatever mother China wants.
    4. Have a GREAT day.

    Anything I missed?

  • sinocei was the English-language website for US "investors." Suoang is their website in Chinese (from before they were in the wet-coal "business").

    Equisolve is the hosting company for sinocei -- so my guess is, the company (Sino Clean) ceased paying the fee for maintaining the English-language website hosting and content, and the domain will continue to get that "site suspended" error message until either the domain registration expires, or they pay their hosting bill.

    You could ask Jim Sutter, someone paid for a press release suggesting he is now Chairman... so maybe he has big plans for restoring investor communications. Or you could ask the court-appointed Receiver if there are any plans to restore the investor website in English. At least to translate the messages from "The Chairman."

  • Do you happen to have information on where their website went? sends one to Equisolve saying it's suspended, looks like they are trying to run and hide.

  • February 26, 2015

    Dear Directors, Shareholders, and Customers:

    The 2015 Spring Festival is here. May I, on behalf of all staff members, extend sincere greetings and blessings! Wishing you a happy Spring Festival, physical health, and happiness at home!

    Looking back on last year, 2014, has been difficult, but we look towards 2015 with confidence and enthusiasm.

    China's 2014 economy had increased pressure, and many industries are experiencing the economic downturn, the 3 overlap and the difficult situation. Companies are faced with internal and external multi-pressure, the number of foreign companies will not finance will also pay for high maintenance costs, the domestic market in the Environmental Protection level increases, many customers choose the more environmentally clean natural gas, and oil prices have fallen substantially, with oil customers to use CWF will also significantly reduce, the company faced a transition of choice. It is gratifying that the countries have introduced various policies to guide enterprises to achieve strategic transformation, and open the multi-level capital market, and the new 3 board development progressing well and the Main Board listing to register a policy called for.

    Company management will firmly grasp countries to encourage the transformation and development of the capital market opportunity and to open up new markets, and seize the new opportunities that 2015 will bring about new and glorious!

    In conclusion, once again I wish you and your family in the new year: health, family fun, success in work, and may 10,000 things go according to your wishes!

    The Chairman

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