I rarely read this message board anymore as it is a bunch of negative people with little understanding of what is going on and pretend they are experts, and when they start attacking people who are decent people doing their job even doing a pretty good job like Mr Seiden, then I cannot stay silent.
Just a few key points that seem to be ignored or worse falsified by those people. If you believe this company is not a fraud, then the last reported assets in 2011 were showing over $100m of current assets most of it in cash or cash equivalent. If you believe it is a fraud why do you care as there is nothing to recover, just move on, if you are long sell your shares if you are short don't know what you are waiting for anyway.
So yes Mr Seiden has spent $300K already and certainly more could be spent before we see some recovery for the shareholders but again put this in comparison to the $100+m of current assets and a company market value today of $8m, so even if he spent $1m or $2m to recover most of the assets, shareholders would still get the bulk of it.
Then one thing these people do not tell you or perhaps don't know is that the group of 50+ shareholders who supported the legal action and the appointment of Mr Seiden as receiver paid only $25K as a retainer to Mr Seiden which means that whatever money he is spending paying even other companies working with him is money that he is willing to risk assuming he will be able to recover some assets to pay for the bills. So in some way the higher the bill is the more incentive he will have to get the company to cooperate or lose control. If like some people say he will recover nothing as there is no money to recover or Ren doesn't have to comply, so then he will never get paid excepted for the $25K the shareholder group gave him !
Or was it $700,000 he took from shareholders and what has he accomplished? What suckers the shareholders of SCEI were. Seiden is just fighting for what little money is left in SCEI to pay himself his company and his cohorts. Shareholders will get nothing.
Sentiment: Strong Sell
One wonders if Seiden's Syphon is clearly understood by investors. Even if one believed the formerly rescinded audited false financials, and one turns their head at the now enormous delay in issuing new, unaudited financials, one wonders iif SCEI will ever have an value after any remaining cash is Syphoned out by Seiden.
One absolutely clear point is that Seiden will stop the Syphon if he believes he can't get anymore money. As there is no financial data several weeks in, one wonders if he has already given up. What could Ren possibly be doing at this point?
WELL SAID....... So far Seiden and associates have run up a bill of 1 1/2 million dollars . In 6 more months it will be 3 million.He gets paid handsomely . The money he himself makes on the lawsuit will be his major interest.Lets see how shareholders make out.
So, you are looking for evidence that Ren stole the cash. Let me point you to a couple of events. I would not expect there to be a report saying, "The CEO stole the cash." I would, however, expect to see some very unusual business dealings, and the company DID report some very unusual stuff.
1. The company pays for coal in advance. But sometimes the coal they paid for in advance was never delivered. If you wanted to launder investor capital to line your pockets, you could pre-pay your buddy for some coal and have him not deliver it. Then, he can split the cash with you behind the scenes. You will never see a report saying Ren prepaid for coal and made sure it wasn't delivered. After he prepaid and his supplier didn't deliver, Ren and his supplier hid the money in a mattress hoping no one would find it.
If Ren felt threatened, he could have offloaded LOTS of company cash as prepayments for a variety of things. He also could have set up a variety of liabilities for the company so that no one could take assets used to secure liabilities/debts.
2. Dongguan. This debacle was either pure stupidity or a crime or what we in America might refer to as criminal negligence. An asset of the company (a factory) was seized in another company's bankruptcy. Did that asset disappear from the books? Did it become a liability that Ren had to repurchase through the bankruptcy court? Nobody knows, right? If the asset was used to secure anything, and it disappeared, then whatever cash remained in the company would have been set aside to offset the required collateral against a liability.
So THE BEST CASE SCENARIO seems to be that Ren is a bad manager. The worst is that he is a criminal (via negligence or intent). I guess the good news for you would be that Ren is actually stupid. While he could see Seiden 8,000 miles away and he could have taken any number of actions to tie up the money, if he is stupid, maybe he didn't.
Time will tell.
Of course you have a right to voice your OPINION. At least now you are admitting that that is all you've got.
And of course you are LONG. Who doubts that?
And since the stock is going up as you predict; you can mortgage your house and everything you have to buy at the current price of 40 cents.
If you think that - who am I to stop you?
As for me being a BASHER ... all I've stated is that I don't know and that I am waiting on the facts. I have also stated time after time, that although I am doubtful due to my prior experiences with Chinese micro-caps, that I hope that SCEI will be the turning point for US investors. I am hoping that Seiden will be a "Savior" for us all.
Having a wait and see attitude means just that - that one is waiting. I am not going to run ahead of the facts until they're there.
You have your certain position based on personal opinion and I have my uncertain position awaiting the facts. There is therefore no reason for you to lower yourself to name calling. After all, in your OPINION I am going to be very happy in the end.
Mizesaw, I have every right to voice my opinion on what I think the stock will do. It is called a message board. I am long and I am long BECAUSE I think the stock will go UP!
Such hypocrisy by you bashers. Sorry you got your but kicked by a Chinese company. It happens with American companies as well. SO if you bashers SHUT UP, I will shut up. Otherwise, go stuff yourself.
So you might as well stop with all the Pumping for no reason. Until Seiden can show proof that investors can and are likely to get substantial compensation - the stock is dead. Your $4-5 projections are based on nothing but your own hopes. Right now all anyone can say is that no one knows - not even Seiden.
The stock price will do nothing until there are public success about Rob Seiden's activity.
Look at the stock price of 40 cents. Evidently there isn't much confidence that Seiden is going to get anything near what you hope.
I am just trying to capitalize off what Rob Seiden is doing on behalf of all the shareholders. I don't analyze what all people paid for the stock. I think any shareholder of SCEI would be happy to get $4 to $5 per share as apposed to what it is trading (or not trading for) right now regardless of what they paid for it.
WOLF!!!!! WOLF!!!! WOLF!!!!
If someone cries wolf enough times, there are people who will believe it. The short report saying they had no cash came out just months after their secondary offering. That same short attack had no evidence WHATSOEVER of Ren having stole the cash. Now, that said, I don't really care about the business and how much profit they make. I am betting that Rob will return to shareholders a large multiple over what I paid to get my shares.
If he would have control of the cash, the most important asset the company has, I think it would be well reported by now that he has. If he doesn't have control of the cash, then what is the value to be had here? A few slurry trucks and some coal crushing machines. Big deal.
Of course I argue from a Pro-Seiden point of view. I bought stock with the idea he would successfully deliver to shareholders a much greater value than the $5 Mil in market cap when I started buying.
As far as the BOD of Wiscon vs SCEI, if you read the court order, the board of SCEI has no say from a legal stand point after the court put it into Receivership, the receiver has full control. That is very directly stated in the court order and indirectly in the press release by Seiden.
This is such a trivial matter -- I hesitate to offer input -- but you do seem to enjoy arguing minutiae from a pro-Seiden perspective...
When I search Nevada's online portal for business registrations -- SilverFlume -- the current listing of Officers for Sino Clean Energy, Inc. is:
Treasurer - WEN #$%$
President - BAOWEN REN
Secretary - BAOWEN REN
Director - PENG ZHOU
So if you're a shareholder of SCEI, it looks like Ren is technically in "control" of your company for now -- and that's consistant with the company's official press release about impending financial statements and an Annual Meeting. Wiscon is just a subsidiary that answers to the holding company (unless it's already been transferred out or something, I guess we'll find out when the financial statements are released). Of course, I don't doubt the Receiver could petition the court for some changes -- but there must be some reason he hasn't. Maybe he and Ren are cooperating on full disclosure! :)
My definition of control is cash in hand. Does Seiden control anything? Or is Ren or someone else in control? Or do investors have control? That's the ultimate question - do investors have any control at all?
Who cares about "business 101" or other academic issues. The only issue is will investors ever get back anything more than a few pennies on the dollar. No one knows. The stock price isn't painting a very hopeful picture. But only time will tell. All one can really do is wait and see.
You are the idiot! Thousands of companies in China are owned and operated by parent companies in Hong Kong and those parent companies determine who runs the Chinese operations. That has been going on for 30 plus years and has been well acknowledged by Chinese society and courts.
I don't give hoot if this is coal slurry or tidily winks. My understanding from reading the court order, Seiden's job is to sell the company at its maximum value for the shareholders. I assume this will cost some money so I am not overly concerned with Seiden spending a few million dollars to make it happen.