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Research Frontiers Inc. Message Board

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  • Reply to

    More on the tram

    by thebardof_avoncalling Sep 19, 2014 5:18 PM

    Don't know Bard, it all looks good and we have witnessed many of these "spd installations" in the past, only to be frustrated with non-action. I don't agree with xav much, in fact never have before. But if the Belgium trams were getting spd glass, Joe would have jumped all over it in a public release.

  • Reply to

    More on the tram

    by thebardof_avoncalling Sep 19, 2014 5:18 PM
    thebardof_avoncalling thebardof_avoncalling Sep 22, 2014 10:25 AM Flag

    I don't know either, and I'd be more comfortable if the Vision Systems' PR had been a bit more enlightening:

    "A major player in the international automotive industry, Vision Systems Automotive
    participates in Bombardier's new technological project by supplying smart
    shading systems for passengers in Bombardier's "Innovation tramway" presented at the International Trade Fair for Transport Technology taking place in Berlin from 23 to 26 September.

    I find the terms "innovation tramway," "innovation journey," and "Flexity 2 platform" in the VS, Bombardier and RFI PRs very confusing. If the tram and the platform are the same thing, I think we're good, because Bombardier's media schedule says they're handing the tram off to de LIjn on the 24th, after a press tour of all their exhibits.

    As to the lack of a announcement from RFI, I've long accepted the fact that the licensees and their customers dictate what and how much Joe can say. Short-term, I don't think it matters because this is the end of the quarter. I expect the shorts to drive the price down in an attempt to trigger institutional selling.

  • If all is rosy, why not buy a few instead?

  • thebardof_avoncalling thebardof_avoncalling Sep 22, 2014 10:48 AM Flag

    Yes, he sold 6,212 shares and still holds or controls 924,066. I'm SO worried!

  • What are the pluses and minuses of the technology used by View INC. as opposed to SPD ?
    Here is the link to View INC website

    viewglassDOTcom

  • Reply to

    View vs SPD

    by cyberne Sep 22, 2014 12:11 PM

    One sells glass and one developed SPD nanotech, which licensee Hitachi Chemical has put in a film that produced 4.3 million square feet a year. This film is used by enormous glass companies like Asahi, Pilkington to be used in the automotive industry for panoramic roofs. REFR then collects 10-15% royalty on the net sale price of the final product.

    What does "View" do to match that?

    Sentiment: Strong Buy

  • Reply to

    View vs SPD

    by cyberne Sep 22, 2014 12:11 PM

    Lester, I was asking about the technology itself that View Inc. uses. How is it different from SPD?
    Is switching speed as fast ? Does it provide any heat protection? etc.

  • Reply to

    View vs SPD

    by cyberne Sep 22, 2014 12:11 PM
    thebardof_avoncalling thebardof_avoncalling Sep 23, 2014 12:23 AM Flag

    Cyberne,

    View makes electrochomic glass for architectural applications. Their main competition is from SAGE. EC is also what Gentex uses in the Boeing 787 windows, and it hasn' t had the warmest reception.

    Do a search for the Connections video on View's site for an overview of their technology.
    .

  • I think this is the innovation journey mentioned in the Vision Systems PR. Search under Innotrans Innovation Tours Showcase World Market Debuts.

    Draw your own conclusions about what it means for the tram windows.

  • Reply to

    View vs SPD

    by cyberne Sep 22, 2014 12:11 PM

    So, Lester, are you saying that Hitachi "PRODUCED" 4.3 MILLION Sq. Ft. last year? And so REFR received a 50 cent per square foot royalty on that (based on the barely $2MM in top line revenue).
    Or is the reality that no where near 4.3 MM Sq. FT. were produced? Based on Mercedes take rate on the SL and SLK isn't it closer to about 80,000 Sq.Ft. annually?
    Maybe the 4.3 is a "potential annual capacity" which means nothing unless it is ordered and sold.

  • Reply to

    View vs SPD

    by cyberne Sep 22, 2014 12:11 PM

    Aside from the technology being electrochromic, the major difference is that View Glass is actually being sold for architectural uses, whereas SPD has been used only in demonstration projects and apparently is not practical for buildings.
    Sure EC is slower and less adjustable, but rapid change is not that important. Cost is.

  • Reply to

    View vs SPD

    by cyberne Sep 22, 2014 12:11 PM

    Lester doesn't mention that REFR is not expected to turn a profit this year or next on the limited use in automobiles, or that no other company deems it worthwhile to develop SPD technology. EC, on the other hand , is getting the bulk of R&D and sales in the smart glass market.

  • When the pumpers resort to cheap tricks like that I know they have nothing of substance to work with.
    The same goes for the penny ante tape painting that has been habitual with REFR for decades.

  • Reply to

    View vs SPD

    by cyberne Sep 22, 2014 12:11 PM

    REFR doesn't take the royalty from the film. The SPD infrastructure starts with emulsion and film makers. Then it moves to the Tier 1 licensees who develop products for autos, airplanes, mass transit and architectural projects. That's why the royalties on the S-Class are $150-$250.

    Sentiment: Strong Buy

  • Reply to

    View vs SPD

    by cyberne Sep 22, 2014 12:11 PM

    Lester is nothing but cheap tricks.
    He wants to imply great volume and demand for SPD, by way of saying Hitachi has 4.3 million sq.ft. of capacity---but he knows that the actual volume is not even half of 100,000 sq ft.
    When caught in his misrepresentation...Lester ignores the catch and moves to another half truth to squeeze out of trouble about royalties in a wide range of $150-250. He has a problem, as the price of the SPD and the developed products comes down with volume SO DOES HIS ROYALTY AMOUNT in absolute dollars per unit.
    Even with the most optimistic take rates on the S Class, at 40% he might see REFR get another $6MM in revenue. He forgets that even with another $6MM on the top line that will not bring REFR to profitability....it will maybe bring it close to break-even. If the take rate on the S Class disappoints Lester and the Cheerleaders they have another BIG loss in 2015. If the unit royalties drop with the unit cost of the finished goods the loss could be nearly identical to the last couple of years. THERE IS NO ROSY FUTURE FOR REFR.
    Lastly, we keep hearing how LC and LCD are "slower than SPD" .....well that is a bunch of baloney about stuff you cannot see. The EC, LC & LCD change time is less than 100 milleseconds--almost too fast to distinguish a difference with SPD by the naked eye--which is all the consumer has. So lets give up that charade starting right now.

  • Reply to

    View vs SPD

    by cyberne Sep 22, 2014 12:11 PM

    LC doesn't block heat. SPD is climate control, not just dimming.

    How's that short position working for you?

    Sentiment: Strong Buy

  • Reply to

    View vs SPD

    by cyberne Sep 22, 2014 12:11 PM

    Lester trying to mislead again. LC is used mostly for internal privacy screen. EC does block heat.
    More importantly, there are coatings costing a tiny fraction of smart window applications that effectively block heat.

  • Reply to

    Bogus rec. count

    by xavierducats Sep 23, 2014 1:09 PM

    Thanks for proving my point. Either the pumpers have a glimmer of humor, or they just can't help themselves.

  • Reply to

    View vs SPD

    by cyberne Sep 22, 2014 12:11 PM
    jbholmes02@att.net jbholmes02 Sep 24, 2014 3:31 PM Flag

    View is electrochromic (ECD). ECD does not reflect heat, it absorbs it. 787 windows, for example, become hot to the touch. Opting for a low-e coating reduces the capacity for passive gain. SPD on the other hand is reflective in its off state, not absorptive.

    This, combined with the very slow switching speed of large ECD windows and high levels of light transmission in its darkened state (no privacy afforded) make ECD not really a viable competitor to SPD imo. (Vision Systems has achieved near-blackout with its Nuance Dual and Noctis solutions.)

  • Reply to

    View vs SPD

    by cyberne Sep 22, 2014 12:11 PM

    EC not a viable competitor? I suppose that is why it was chosen by Boeing.



    Can you give a source to back that up? I believe SPD windows/skylights also get quite hot, and rely on a reflective coating.

REFR
5.12-0.04(-0.75%)Dec 19 4:00 PMEST

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