Thanks for your candid reply. I must agree with some of your comments regarding the demeanor of employees that feel "shafted" and again, yes, I must agree with the escort patrol for these folks. However, the people I wrote about didn't seem to be your hardcore and, as in Rocket's expression "CMEM" type people. Some of these guys were personal friends and happy employees. That is why I mentioned the RnD practice that does not seem to exist in the majority of Dow or even UCC. I remember one assistant plant manager years ago stating that, "to hell with everyone else, I got my bonus". Its a double edged sword where BIG ME LITTLE YOU is forever dominant. End of discussion, again, thanks for your input. Venting makes a body feel better.
I was treated well, left happy and there was no need for me to be escorted. Of all the folks I know of who left since the takeover, I only know of one other who feels the same way.
When you have to consider your employees a security risk, you might have a relationship problem.
I'm not sure I have any recommendations for Dow. When an employee has been around 20 years, that means they hired in during the time that if you joined Dow or Carbide it was expected to be a lifetime contract. Sadly, for some folks a job is the most important relationship in their life. In spite of the fact that this "contract" was essentially voided a few years back, some just can't leave without some real anger.
And, sadly, no, I don't think on average that Dow has succeeded in making folks in general buy into the Respect&Dignity routine, much less the folks that they have just asked to leave.
Yes, I can think of some folks that I think an official escort was indeed the prudent thing to do.
I had just the same experience with a friend in Dow. In my case, he called me and asked my advice before he let his boss know the project was completed. You figure the advice given.
When his boss called him in, not on the phone but at work, he responded, 'Yes boss, you got it ... oops ... I hit the delete button.' True story, but not in such dramatic cyber space melodrama ... sigh ... more on the lines of dropping your work in the park.
Thanks for the info regarding the R&D puke. Some people tend to be more childish than others and I would presume this comes from being "spoon fed" and taught to feel superior to others since he/she is a PhD.
<Do you agree with people being "escorted" out by security such as they did many times at Seadrift?
Who determines if an employee is a risk to the company, especially since some of these employees had been faithful employess in excess of 20 years service?>
When Carbide first started having RIFs back in the 70's, several faithful long-term employees did not leave gracefully. Probably the most notable case was a PhD in R&D with nearly 25 years service who emptied 20 years of files onto his office floor and then drove through the bushes in front of Bldg. 770 on his way out of the Tech Center.
I was delighted to leave (I asked for the package), because the severance package was excellent and the departure came at a good time in my life. Had I not been happy to leave, I would have thought it only prudent on the part of management to escort me out. For several years, part of my job included trying to figure out ways that people could foul up the process so that we could guard against this.
Here are a couple links that might help. Again, this could depend alot upon which state you reside in.
(1) Encyclopedia on Employment Law, with an outline Go to:
(2) "Firing Employees FAQ (employers perspective)" Go to:
(3) "Losing or Leaving a Job FAQ (employees perspecitve)" Go to:
Better than the one where the boss told loyal employee he needed a project done on the weekend. Employee worked all weekend to finish project and sunday evening boss calls to find out if project got finished. Yes, it's finished, well good then you don't need to come in tomorrow, your all through! Hey,
no need to look the guy in the eye and tell him he's fired, just do it over the phone.
To my knowledge, a company can have you leave under two circumstances:
1. Separation with cause - documented performance issues over time or significant single event such as theft - no package given. The standard for documented performance issues is generally high.
2. Separation with no cause - in this case a package is given that is valued to be reasonably equivalent to what you could probably expect in a successful wrongful dismissal suit.
Thanks - good info.
And, it's just what I thought. I have a friend who had to stay until Friday Feb. 27 (losing his job, "reorganized", getting a package) - HR was so overwhelmed with preparing packages in February he didn't get the packet until Feb. 24. He knew he had 45 (90?) days to review it, but the fact that they waited that long (he was told he was losing his job the morning of Feb. 3) is mean of Dow. I also thought it was mean to tell him at 8:00 in the morning - he had to leave his bosses office and walk down the hall to his desk - passing his coworkers in the process.