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  • rhawrela rhawrela Mar 17, 2013 5:37 PM Flag

    Jubail - Act 1 - Scene 2

    Yoo Hoo! Anybody home on the BOD? Bend over y'all. Are you ready to be shafted once again? This is the largest, single complex ever announced? $20 billion. A repeat of Act 1, Scene 1 in 1980??? Too bad Dow didn't keep the Copp Refinery in Texas, Oyster Creek, in mothballs. I wouldn't trust the Arabs as far as I could throw them.


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    • ralph m parsons, built the copp refinery, it was sold to philbro energy. ----
      Anne K. Rhodes Refining/Petrochemical Editor In 1993, Phibro Energy USA Inc. purchased Dow Chemical Co.'s idle 200,000 b/d refinery at Freeport, Tex. The Dow facility, known as the Oyster Creek refinery, was incapable of producing gasoline, and therefore was somewhat incomplete as a stand-alone refinery. By relocating and integrating units from the Dow plant with Phibro's 130,700 b/d refinery at Texas City, Tex., and adding a new residual oil solvent extraction (ROSE) unit, Phibro will optimize its Texas refinery operations. The dismantling, movement, and re-erection phases of the project are all but finished, and in...

      • 3 Replies to lakovish
      • Referring to blawn51's post, I also agree with blawn51 that this is confusing. This is why I stated the control room use as a training center and selling pumps as surplus equipment. As I left Dow in 1993, these two events were taking place. I had also been back to Texas a bit later and the COPP site was still in a state of canibalization. ????

        Can anyone confirm this?


      • This is confusing. The Dow COPP unit was dismantled years ago and Dow built a polypropylene plant on the exact same site using licensed technology. That plant was recently sold to Braskem - the Braziliian company, as part of Dow's polypropylene business sale. You can still see the polypropylene plant plainly from Highway 332 as you drive to Surfside.

        It's possible that Phibro purchased the equipment and has stored it for all of these years, but I'd be surprised.

        I don't remember the exact years that the PP plant was being built but I think it was in the late 1990's sometime but could have been as late as the early 2000s. Someone associated with the Polypropylene project would know for sure.


      • lakovish, thks for the update. Levy can rest a bit easier as it wasn't a 100% loss.


    • Don't be to hard on your self and Dow for what happened act 1 scene 1. Wikipedia 1980's oil glut and the description of global chaos in the crude supply business had oil priced at 32 $/bbl falling to 10 $ a barrel over 18 months in mid 82. That alone will make distribution cost prohibitive to bring the crude half way around the world. Friend Ronald Reagan also equalized US oil prices with world at the same time doing away with special oil entitlements and product pricing advantages. Spreads on cracker feed stocks relating to liquid vs ethane flipped ends and agreed to contract parameters were suddenly deal breakers.
      The Ponce UCC site 2000 employees went from being a cash mecca to an absolute looser in less than a year and was torn out as a result of the gov't and global glut changes.
      I have not seen that degree of disruption currently even with a n administration in Washington that seems to be hell bent on destroying the Industry. Dow does seem to have more success with commodity growth than purchasing specialties. Gotta be optimistic if the business is to grow.


    • Something that Liveris is doing to save money is to allocate too little for maintenance/shutdowns/catalyst repacks at our location. This means we will go over budget. We went over budget last year for the same reason. This saves money by making our location's bonus factor close to zero, which is what it was this last time - zero. The company cannot afford to pay bonuses with all of the new projects and JV's with debt over 21 billion. The under allotment on capital spending budget makes sure that we overspend and more bonus money goes into the company rather than to employees which at this point, I understand. The company has 50k permanent employees? That amounts to a lot of cash.

      It just seems under handed to me. Everyone can see what's going on. I don't know why we have to play games about it. I guess it's better than admitting that the company is overextended by putting the facts out on the table.

    • Rhaw,
      Investors are being told everything is running smoothly in Saudi Arabia and first units will be up and running on schedule, i. e. late 2015. For the time being, the annual report 2012 shows a 73 MM $ loss on "Sadara development" whatever this means. Dow also writes
      /quote/Equity earnings for 2013 are expected to be down slightly due to increased start-up costs for the Sadara joint venture./unquote/

      Sadara are (as of today) listing 467 open positions for college grads. Anyone interested ?

    • Shouldn't the JV make money though? I hate the debt. We certainly don't need any more of that. But, wont it pay off in the long run? In at least 5 years from start up? What happened in 1980?

      • 1 Reply to walkingoncats
      • What happened it the 80s? How quickly we forget. Dow and the Saudis JVd a scheme where 200,000 bbls/d of sweet crude would flow to a refinery in Texas (The COPP Refinery). In return, Dow would build a shipping infrastructure, a green belt, a steam plant, an ethylene plant and an EO plant in Jubail. The COPP refinery was designed and constructed and ready to produce. Saudis were being designated for operator training in Texas. Some of us were designated for religeous traing in SA. The project fell through because Levy Lethers had correctly predicted that Dow could not manage 3 Megabuck projects at one time. [FS Alberta, ongoing, Pruedo Bay Alaska, and Jubail].

        At a historical presentation in Rotterdam, Dow #$%$ on itself and admitted it was way behind schedule and that we didn't know what the hell we were proposing. The Saudis walked out and cancelled the project. Dow was stuck with a $600mm refinery at Oyster Creek with no feedstock.

        Dow found 50,000 bbls/d of sour crude from Mexico. It ran for 1 month at 25% of capacity and shut-down for good. Later Dow offered anyone the COPP refinery for $1, if the buyer would assume the debt. EOS.

        I was personally involved and my net gain was one $75 tie and a two week vacation for my wife and I in Amsterdam, thanks to the SAs and Levy. I made two of three presentations, EO and ethylene on 24 hours notice wife packed my bag wo tie..

    • Yep, and Jubail Intercontinental Hotel going through major remodeling just in time.

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