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Sapient Corporation Message Board

  • SilentBuddy SilentBuddy Jul 28, 1998 5:48 PM Flag

    Sinking down!!!!!!

    This stock will go down and down!!!!!! It won't go up anytime soon. So short it people!!!!

    Good luck!!!

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    • >> I was an experienced PM at SAPE and
      after a year of pain and suffering left.
      <<

      Did you actually get to do PM-type work, or was that
      really being done by the DoD (or at least to his/her
      sole satisfaction)?

      -- JBL

    • I can support the message that Name____ is
      sending. I was an experienced PM at SAPE and after a year
      of pain and suffering left. Why? Because I wanted to
      create true value using approaches that were a mix of my
      prior experience and the SAPE teachings. The real
      problem was that my Director, a product of SAPE from day
      one of his career could not imagine that there were
      any other approaches than the SAPE method. (Tunnel
      Vision) So I finally found a new organization that is
      open and that is a learning organization.

      SAPE
      a great place for green followers to learn some
      interesting approaching. SAPE is bad place for those who view
      the world in many dimensions.

      Just some
      thoughts.

      As for an investment opportunity, I am not qualified
      to judge. I will leave that to others?

    • >> I do sit here and ponder what the heck
      happened to such an intelligent, creative, aggressive,
      energetic person like you at Sapient?
      <<

      Perhaps he saw others with less intelligence and
      creativity excel at SAPE because the toed the company line.

    • >>ith0789, I don't think it's proper for
      you to rebuke someone for not living up to Mr.
      Greenberg standards unless you are like Mr. Greenberg
      yourself. May we know if YOU have a consulting firm, small
      as it may be? And if you do, we'll compare you
      against Bill Gates... he was even younger than that,
      wasn't he? Oh mighty Sapient, the breeder of Bill
      Gates...<<

      This is clearly a well thought-out argument...I think
      you missed the point entirely. I was not rebuking
      Mary for not living up to Jerry Greenberg's standards;
      rather, my point was that even though someone may not
      have as many years as you do (I'm guessing here that
      you are older than 24), that doesn't dismiss their
      abilities. I never laid claim to being a Jerry Greenberg, I
      was merely countering an argument by someone who
      claimed that her age made her better at managing
      projects. She saw the humor (as you clearly did not) in my
      comment. My goal was not to diminish her capabilities, but
      merely to provide a counter-argument.

      As for
      your other points, it's not that the things you say
      don't have merit and that people shouldn't believe
      them; clearly Sapient and every other consulting firm
      have both supporters and detractors. That's life. It's
      just that your "hard facts" are just as colored by
      your perspective as are those of staunch supporters.


      I echo what's been said. ff9685, do your research.
      Talk to LOTS of people on the inside if you can, and
      get many perspectives. One person's "to die for"
      company may be another person's hell. Like anything, it's
      all a matter of perspective. Keep in mind, however,
      that anywhere you go in the IT consulting world, you
      WILL work hard. Any shop that tells you that they are
      perfect at managing projects and that they never run into
      trouble is shoveling it deep. Make sure you ask insiders
      (on the phone, not over the Net) how they handle it.
      And, lastly, ask about an equity stake in the company
      (before you become a "partner"). Not many consulting
      firms, except CATP, EDS and Sapient offer much in the
      way of that. At least if you're working that hard,
      you should be getting something back.

      As for
      Sapient as an investment, it stands more to reason that
      the prospects are better than Amazon's due to the
      fact that the company actually has earnings, and good
      ones to boot. Hopefully they will continue as
      predicted.

      >>He who has brains, let him use it.
      <<

      Amen.

    • Dear Name________
      I do not intend on turning
      this into a dating chat line however I must say I am
      beginning to admire you for your spunk, energy and
      creativity.

      Although I do sit here and ponder what
      the heck happened to such an intelligent, creative,
      aggressive, energetic person like you at Sapient?

    • > It's extremely difficult for there to be an
      ulterior motive to that, no?
      Like maybe earning your
      pay as Sapient morale reinforce? As remarked by
      as2603 in #246, we who write here do it entirely for
      altruistic reasons... ff9685, by all means please do contact
      Sapient HR. You have already got a fine sample of their
      lemon to taste. Many who speak out here like it, maybe
      you will too. But then again, looks like many others
      do not... Oh, of course! I forgot that everyone who
      badmouths Sapient is either a short seller or fascist
      imperialist lackey and a traitor to the
      Motherland.

      ith0789, I don't think it's proper for you to rebuke
      someone for not living up to Mr. Greenberg standards
      unless you are like Mr. Greenberg yourself. May we know
      if YOU have a consulting firm, small as it may be?
      And if you do, we'll compare you against Bill
      Gates... he was even younger than that, wasn't he? Oh
      mighty Sapient, the breeder of Bill Gates...

      A
      fact worth noting would be that the supporters of
      Sapient are not willing to admit even a slightest fault
      with the company, despite the hard facts presented.
      C'mon guys! Really that much of the Workers' Paradise?
      or it fails to exist because the Holy Inquisition
      says it does not? Hence rather challenging though not
      quite unfamiliar patterns of discussion... indeed, why
      would one believe that people are running away from
      Sapient when the mercenary of international capitalists
      who dares to whisper his dirty lies into the ears of
      weak and undisciplined, does not make his true
      identity known? The case is hereby dismissed. Do you
      really want me to? What about dropping me your email?
      Anyone?

      As for whether Sapient is a good
      investment opportunity - not being an expert I dare not to
      speculate. For the past year it was. But so was
      Amazon.com... Will it grow 50% over next year as was proclaimed
      by the "experts" here on this board? Will it grow
      5%? Will it shrink 30%? Will it go under SEC
      investigation? Don't bet your life savings on either. Just
      remember that Sapient is not good employer only because it
      might be good investment, a fault of reasoning commonly
      made by Sapient proponents.

      Oh well, I'm off.
      Still do not understand why I got my emotions to take
      better of me. He who has brains, let him use it.

    • Graduating Very Soon,

      Let me give you some
      sound advice: don't take everything you hear on any
      type of message board at face value. In fact, take it
      with an entire salt shaker and some MSG.

      You
      need to be able to make your own decisions based on
      information you can state the name of a source of. (Sory,
      "Name____" does not qualify as the name of a source.) This
      isn't just limited to investment information, either.
      You shouldn't use chat boards for a stock tip, and
      you shouldn't use them for employment research.
      Reason being, you have absolutely no idea if any of
      these people have ulterior motives, or really are who
      they say they are. It's entirely too easy to sound
      sincere and secretly be holding some puts or shorts in
      the stock laughing as it goes down.

      If you're
      having reservations about going to work for SAPE, it's
      entirely possible that they are justified. But rather than
      jumping off a cliff because some anonymous individual
      says so, it just might make more sense to call your HR
      contact at SAPE and ask for a real person to talk to,
      bounce some ideas off them, etc. If they believe in
      themselves as a company, they should offer somebody to talk
      to. You could possibly even ask for somebody who was
      in your situation a year ago. And if the person
      confirms what's been said on this board, and you're not
      confortable with that, then you have a basis for jumping off
      the cliff. If they don't, and they look/sound
      perfectly honest about what they're saying, then maybe you
      should step away from the cliff instead.

      Be
      careful, and don't do anything rash because some nobody
      said so.

      (And yes, I'm a nobody as well... but
      I'm just trying to help you learn to make your own
      decisions. It's extremely difficult for there to be an
      ulterior motive to that, no? :)

    • >> why do you assume that Sapient PM's
      don't have positive relationships with their clients?
      <<

      I don't think I meant to imply that, only to
      respond to your question as to what actions I take when a
      project begins to head south.

      Touche re: Mr.
      Greenburg... <s>

    • >>In fact, what's typically gone wrong is
      that the mural-sized MS Project chart became just
      that, a mural, and not a living, breathing organism
      which evolves with the project. And it's not MS Project
      (or any other PM tool) that gets one through the
      rough times. It is, instead, a positive relationship
      with one's client that will weather the
      storm.<<

      I don't argue with that point, but please read the
      entire post; you restated what I said in different
      words. Still, why do you assume that Sapient PM's don't
      have positive relationships with their clients? Is
      this based on the info provided by your one "insider"?


      >>FYI, I'm self-employed and have been for 20+ years. I
      started out at about age 24 (imagine that!) as a contract
      programmer and have grown that into a small consulting
      practice. <<

      FYI - Jerry Greenberg started
      Sapient at the age of 24 and has grown that into a LARGE
      consulting practice. Sorry...couldn't resist... ;-)

    • >> what information do you have that leads
      you to believe that all of Sapient's PM's are 24 and
      have no outside experience besides QUADD?
      <<

      I didn't say all the PMs are 24, but some of them
      are, having been "promoted" to that position of
      necessity because of lack of other experienced staff. As to
      my source, obviously that person needs to remain
      anonymous, but it's a SAPE employee.

      >> Plans
      always look great in MS-Project on a giant wall-sized
      plot. But what happens when things go wrong on your
      projects? <<

      Things always go wrong, and it's
      the mark of the experienced PM to keep a level head
      and not to look for someone else to blame. In fact,
      what's typically gone wrong is that the mural-sized MS
      Project chart became just that, a mural, and not a
      living, breathing organism which evolves with the
      project. And it's not MS Project (or any other PM tool)
      that gets one through the rough times. It is, instead,
      a positive relationship with one's client that will
      weather the storm.

      FYI, I'm self-employed and have
      been for 20+ years. I started out at about age 24
      (imagine that!) as a contract programmer and have grown
      that into a small consulting practice.

      -- MSS

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