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Silver Wheaton Corp. Message Board

  • couplover couplover Feb 21, 2006 10:06 PM Flag

    Question for Active Traders

    I see lots of people post about buying and selling this stock weekly or even daily. Do you all trade in a tax free account? If not is it worth it? You lose about 40% to IRS ( in USA not sure in Canada) If it is in Tax free account how much money do people have in there IRA's that they can trade enough volume to make money? I saw one trade today with a $.40 spread on 400 shares. That is $160 before taxes. It seems like the risk of being left out of the next move up or having to buy back higher outweighs the gain. $160 is nice but honestly you could do that every week for a year and have maybe 7 grand or so. The chances of being right every week for a year is slim. I bought this stock and plan to hold until a profit worthy of banking is reached. I bought this stock because it is apparent ( to me) long term this one is going way up. Little risk, solid management, clear income stream.

    Anyway just a question not a commentary on anyones trade activity.

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    • That old man was kind of foolish to carry that much cash on him all the way from his home to the car lot. I would have required the dealer to come to my house for payment direct from my safe, and then had a trusted friend or relative present with me while payment was made, and all papers signed in front of the witness. Cash doesn't leave a trail, bank checks do. Maybe I'm just a little paranoid. What if he had been in a bad accident on the way there, and wakes up in the hospital with all that cash gone, fleeced by one of the EMTs that responded? And then he "pulled the cash out of his pocket"? Maybe back in the 50's when a new truck cost $2000. Let's see, if I paid in 20 dollar bills that would be 2500 bills for a $50,000 truck. Maybe he had all $100 bills in his safe. Thats still 500 of them. This guy had some deep pockets.

    • This reminds me of a true story. This elderly man had never trusted banks. He always paid cash for everything and had his money in a safe in the house. When his old pickup truck gave up the ghost, he decided it was time to stop buying older cars and went to a dealer to buy himself a brand new truck.
      When he pulled the cash out of his pocket, the dealer refused to take it. He asked for a check. The man said he had never had a bank account.

      The dealer said: These days, only maffiosi pay cash (to lander money). Honest people give a check.

      I wonder if he would have taken silver.

    • unfortunately credit is measured on many different criteria. One thing is having a credit card and using it. Of course dont over do it. But credit is measured on your revolving credit as well as any loans you may have. <br><br>Yahoo finance site and Money.com sometimes have good articles, free as well, that can help you in establishing credit and not over doing it.<br><br>good luck

    • Yeah, that's the irony. Say someone lives from paycheck to paycheck, he'll get a loan. You may have millions and not get it.

      Once a friend told me to start building my credit, just to "have" some credit. He adviced me to apply for a very small loan from my bank, like, $200 for 6 months, repay half after a month and the other half two months later. Didn't work! And this was my own bank who can see what's going in and out.
      Anyway! It doesn't bother me really.

      But I always wondered how day traders manage their retirement savings.

    • Wrong again Flewthecoup,
      Try a perfect credit rating and see about a loan.
      Dont you have a Father?

    • <<<Isn't it ironical that someone who has money and no debt cannot get a loan? But someone loaded with credit card debts can?>>

      Cause you wont make enough money for the lenders. plus they have certain requirements for "ability to repay" and they only look at income.

    • It was a rhetorical question; but no, I have never had an income. I cannot say I am retired, retired from what?

      I know I don't fit in the neat categories. That's the problem with categories: some people won't fit in any.

      I have no credit - I have no debt - always paid cash for everything. When I bought my home, I had the cash, but wanted to get a mortgage at a low interest instead. No way! I even tried the No-Doc loans... I ended up paying all cash.

      Isn't it ironical that someone who has money and no debt cannot get a loan? But someone loaded with credit card debts can?

    • Fran, I can not find an answer for that. The IRS will consider it income for tax purposes so that should qualify as income for ROTH. Call the IRS help line . I think its 1-800-IRS-1040 or google em up.

      The bigger question is are you retired already or ??? How come no income? Or it is none of my business which I would understand.

    • Coup, it's all in how the VAT is done. I would not be at all surprised to see the U.S. adopt a VAT as a new source of revenue. Given politics and the budget crunch, I would be very surprised if it merely replaced the income tax. I am also concerned that those of us who have saved and already paid income taxes will be hurt in the transition (especially if the VAT were to replace the income tax), since consumption of one sort or another sometime is the only point of saving in the first place, and since that consumption would cost more with a VAT in place. Transition issues and double taxation aside, a VAT is a less distortionary tax and easier to deal with than our current income tax.

    • couplover,
      Excellent topic you've brought up here! Other than a few brief comments I'm going to avoid the trading vs. holding debate as there are other far more important tax considerations you should be aware of.

      First ... everyone is a trader at some point. Often at a much lower gain had they been an active rather than passive one. The simple truth is that it's easy to buy right and much more difficult to sell right.

      If you study up a little on asset allowcation and use some of the proven strategies, you'll do fine with either. That's assumeing you're a decent stock picker to begin with and don't make too many mistakes investing in high risk companies.

      On the subject of IRA's, I think there are some extremely important issues to consider before moveing one way or the other. My own personal opinion is that if you ignore what I believe is the greatest leagal way to cheat the IRS, you are cutting your own throat.

      The biggest problem many find is which vehicle within this family of sheltered accounts, best fit's your own individual profile.

      I'll make that one easy ... The Roth IRA is in my opinion the only choice under today's circumstances no matter what your own needs imply. Here's why ...

      We are currently paying the lowest federal tax rates we're ever going to see for the rest of our lives. That statement begs the question of why anyone would want to shelter todays income through a traditional IRA, only to pay much higher tax rates later at a time your need could very well demand every spare dime you can find.

      The next issue is the flexibility you have with a Roth that is non exsistant in the traditional. For example, if you make the maximum contribution and later some emergency arises requiring you to dip into the fund, you'll pay a heavy penalty for that move as well as the taxes due, and could even place the tax status of the entire fund in jeporady. Not so with a Roth. Any contibution can be withdrawn at any time without penalty. You've already paid taxes on your contibutions and IRS will only penalize and tax withdrawals on any gains.

      When you reach the time of retirement, all moneys withdrawn including both contributions and gains, are subject to income tax with the Traditional IRA. In a Roth, every penny is tax free ... including the gains without limit no matter how well you did.

      In addition, there are many restrictions of what sort of investments qualify within a Traditional IRA, but in the Roth IRA the only restrictions are that you cannot use margin and you cannot short stocks. Other than that, you can invest in anything from Real Estate to Pig Brains ... Cool huh?

      Here's the downside which applies to both. The amount of funds you can contribute during any given year is restricted ...

      This means that new IRA acounts have very limited funds in the beginning ... which may or may not dictate the short term trader vs. long term holder strategies. That all depends on how good you are, but I think that is a far less consideration than the tax issue.

      Go to any number of investment websites and read up on the two, as there are far too many variables and exceptions to list in this post.

      Once completing the task, I'm sure you'll join the masses that are currently and legally ... putting it to the IRS!!!

      Good Luck!
      -Contrarian

      • 4 Replies to contrarian2001
      • Thanks Cont. yes we went into Roth IRA in '99 or whenever it was they started and paid the taxes over a four year time frame so it is all free and clear now. Our contributions are getting up there as well as we age. $4500 per annum for me $5000 per annum for wife. My question was more about trades then IRA's but thanks for the reply. Hopefully others will benefit too.

        I have traded lightly with some penny stox and on a % basis did very well but was only fooling around with a couple of thousand dollars. My retirement is too important for me to trade serious dough. I have always been a guy who identifies a trend and tries to stay with it. Sometimes, like the miners in '04 after all those gains of '03 will test your nerves. I was just curious how many people actively trade and why and how do they keep their books straight on losses and gains and do they make more or less money.

      • What kind of IRA or pension plan would a trader have? Someone who has no other source of income besides his trading?

      • good post.

        mind if I add a few comments?

        If you have a dormant 401K from an old company roll it into an IRA. I have lots of money to trade with now and don't need to worry about taxes at this point.

        If you are over 55 you can make "catch up" payments to your ROTH IRA if you missed some years. Not sure if this is still legal.

        You may want to save for college in your roth or traditional IRA. Those withdrawals are usually exempt from penalties (not sure about tax - but I think so).
        Gotta watch those 529 Plans, make sure you understand it. I chose to go the IRA way for both retirement and college savings but admit I am rusty after no reviewing it for a few years.

        What do you mean you can jeopordize the entire tax shelter by taking some withdrawals and paying the 10% penalty and tax liability from an IRA?
        I am not aware of anything like that.

        Have a good one.

        Go SLW!

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SLW
21.39-0.86(-3.87%)Sep 19 4:07 PMEDT

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