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Nutraceutical International Corporation Message Board

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    • Guys like him never wonder, they have all of the answers and are more than willing to guide everyone elses pocketbook, but spend never their own.

    • Fritz just doesn't get it. The only ones who benefit from his union are the slackers who would be fired in a free workforce. Those willing to work only lose by forfeiting their dues to union overheads.

      We don't have a surplus of trained employees as he seems to think. Current college grads have a near 100% chance for good employment in today's economy. The only ones suffering in this economy are those unwilling to improve themselves or move where there is a job.

      Fritz probably wants the government to tax income 100% so his social vision can be be accomplished. Pretty soon nothing is available to tax and he wonders what went wrong.

    • <<<Hence the animosity directed toward me on this message board. What really bothers me about that is not the insults, but the fact that these guys actually seem to believe that they, having decided to SPECULATE IN THE STOCK for a week, a month, a year, a decade, whatever, are more important stakeholders in Nutraceutical than employees putting their lives into it.>>>>

      You have earned the animosity.

      You forget that the shareholders "are" the owners of the company. Owners "are" the stakeholders. As an "owner" of the company; I agree with "our" employee; the CEO and his stance regarding the formation of a union to force demands upon the company. There is no shortage of retail clerks in the labor market, there is no real trade skill that makes for a shortage of highly trained stockers and check out personnel. No need for a craft guild. Guilds provide training and self policing of craftsmen and artisans. Unions provide collective bargaining, enforcement of bargaining agreements, a labor pool, and some provide training as well as pooled resources for health and retirement packages. There may be a shortage of educated, dedicated, employees that are really knowledgable in the organic food and VMS market, they should be able to attract top pay for their field without collective bargaining. Retirement packages and health benefits are not a right; they need to be earned. They are sometimes offered as an incentive to attract or retain employees. The concept of paying everyone a high wage and full benefit package may not be in the cards for a small grocery store or it may if the employees are worth retaining. From what I have seen, the employees were more busy working against the company in favor of their union, than they were in making themselves valuable and worth the retention packages that could have been offered.

      You joined the fray shortly after the closing of the store with your focus as an activist to either force the store to reopen or to open a comunity coop, or attract another neighborhood friendly grocery store into the community. How are you doing on that task?

      Have you given up? Or just gotten side tracked with your hatred for "big corporations", or are you just here to antagonize since you failed at your other endeavours?

      Why don't you invest your own money in the company, become an owner, or open your own grocery and do what you like with your employees. Make sure you invest enough to have a deciding vote. Otherwise, you have no place here for your views.

    • Husker,

      1) I invite you to reason with me why you are a more important stakeholder in Nutraceutical than an employee (assuming that you are not also an employee).

      2) It is common tactic to call anyone who questions the primacy of capital a "socialist", thereby attempting to connect them to the horribly failed socialist experiments. I needed to point out that you are doing that here.

      3) I haven't yet figured out what utopia would look like. Certainly not Cuba; do you think I am nuts?

      4) You are not making money for the shareholders by owning stock. Although I know you are a relatively long term investor in Nutraceutical, I find it hard to differentiate you from a speculator in terms of your effect on Nutraceutical.

      5) Having met and conversed with Bruce Remund and Sergio Diaz, I would expect more bad mistakes.

    • This is a general discussion, not just a Nutraceutical discussion. This is not the place for it..... but...

      I agree with some of johnnygtar's opinions too.

      And I know it is tough to keep a business in the black and pay employees a living wage, especially in this day and age when our labor itself is a market commodity and there is an excess supply of labor. Of course, under those conditions, there is a downward pressure on wages. When the plagues in Europe killed so many people, it turned labor scarce as a result, and thus provided the impetus to craft guilds and professions and the like And a middle class developed. Perhaps I don't need to point it out, but the middle class that Nutraceutical investors probably belong to is in part a result of scarce labor, yet they avidly benefit from excess labor.

      OK, in a market economy, in order to attract capital, a business has to make money, i.e. show that it can pay back a profit on the investments, either through dividends or stock price increases. Therefore, the ability of a company to keep expenses low, including the huge expense of labor, is one factor in attracting investors.

      Thus we see why a shareholder would be so antagonistic to anyone in favor of increasing the share that workers get, unless that shareholder cared about the workers.

      Hence the animosity directed toward me on this message board. What really bothers me about that is not the insults, but the fact that these guys actually seem to believe that they, having decided to SPECULATE IN THE STOCK for a week, a month, a year, a decade, whatever, are more important stakeholders in Nutraceutical than employees putting their lives into it.

      It's crazy that correctly guessing the direction of stock prices is considered a legitimate way to get rich, but working hard for a living for 50 years might not even get you a comfortable retirement!!!

      This following a century of tremendous productivity advances, when a very comfortable life should be possible for anyone willing to work hard.

      Like I said, a more general discussion.

      This analysis does not make me a "socialist".

    • No sense trying to reason with the socialist Fritz. If he wants his vision of utopia he should move to Cuba, Venezuela or Bolivia.

      Lets make some money for the shareholders. One bad decision which won't be repeated.

    • Fritz, The section I pasted and complimented had several well thought out generalized opinions that I definitely agree with. I would add that the first unions were almost entirely a positive influence and a necessary benefit to the U.S. workforce. Employers were greedy and could afford the higher salary and benefit packages. As time has passed the greed pendulum has shifted and now the demands the unions propose have often increased to the point where many U.S. companies have no other choice but to move operations overseas or go bankrupt.
      Unfortunately there is often no happy medium where both company and union can prosper. If I owned a business I would want full control over determining what salary and insurance coverage I could afford and not have that determined by any outside party. Who wouldn't?
      That being said I am not close enough to the union situation NUTR has been involved with to have a clear focused opinion.

    • Max, how should we interpret your post? Johnny rightly points out that unions can be bad, so it's OK for Nutraceutical to fire workers when they start to unionize? That the rule of law can be selectively ignored by companies when they (or you) don't agree with the law?

      Turn that around and imagine employees having that attitude toward the law as regards their employer. Would you think that was excellent?

    • <<<<"It is interesting how you capitalized "socially responsible". The reality is that many unions are socially irresponsible. Many are just as corrupt or more corrupt than the companies they leech off of. Some unions are just fronts-two-faced turncoats who represent the workers on one hand, but buddy up with the company on the other, providing no net positive service.

      What do a bunch of lazy gangsters do to add to the overall good of the worker while they're leeching off the worker (taking union dues)? Most of the time they're sitting in a black limo doing nothing, or perhaps playing golf on their do-nothing salaries.

      People should look to Fed Ex. A non-union company that's always near the top in ratings of companies employees love to work for.">>>>

      Excellent post!!!!!!!!

    • I agree with you that unions have a mixed record, many are corrupt, and some damage the companies. But I'm not arguing on behalf of or for a union here. I am talking about Nutraceutical doing illegal things, exercising poor judgement and failing to execute their strategy.

      And I agree too that we need new and better models of employer/employee relationship. I suspect Nutraceutical management could benefit from thinking about that.

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