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Illumina Inc. Message Board

  • WJJ_7 WJJ_7 Sep 20, 2004 4:33 PM Flag

    News & beadarray

    Check out the news from AFFX today beadarray. Looks like AFFX is ready to role out some new products and give ILMN a little competition. I have to say, that one of the factors that influenced my decision to sell ILMN earlier this year was the competition that was coming down the road from AFFX. I still like ILMN; it will be interesting to see if they can post some good numbers and meet their goal of when they will become profitable. It will be interesting to see how ILMN responds. If I like what I see I may jump back in.

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    • No your smoking crack. ILMN created the first commercially available highthroughput platform to make the market an economic reality.
      They want the focused gene market for association studies which the beadstation is suited for.
      As for not understanding my point genotyping SNP's is only valuable in comparison to other factors such as the environment or between and within populations. The major milestone was shrinking the data set from 6 million or more data points to several hundred thousand. If ILMN had not developed this breakthrough beadarrat technology the hap map would not have gotten off the ground.The BIG market is low-throughput with flexibility and the ability to scale up. Go to AFFX headquarters and ILMN headquarters talk to the people and I mean all the people and see who you like better. In addition do not put words in my mouth, I never stated that ILMN had the highthroughput market in their back pocket. There are only 25 institutions in the world that will use highthroughput genotyping and ILMN is already in half of them.

    • > Genotyping SNP's and creating assays out of them are two separate issues

      I don't understand your point. If you're reporting genotypes for a SNP, then you've created an assay for that SNP. What it means to create an assay is technology dependent.

      > massively high throughput

      For some definition of "massive" that seems to not apply in this case.

      > meaningless SNP genotyping

      Isn't this what you called "a major milestone in human endeavor" when ILMN was doing it?

      > break the cost barrier

      I'm not trying to bash ILMN. They have their sweet spot and for midrange applications they may be superior to AFFX chips. Bead arrays are genuinely clever technology. But you're smoking crack if you think they've got the high throughput genotyping market in their back pocket.

    • Why do you think AFFX put out their release at the same time Mr. Flatley was giving his address at UBS Warburg?

    • Genotyping SNP's and creating assay's out of them are two seperate issues.ILMN was first to market with a commercial SNP genotyping system with massively high throughput that scaled exponentially. ILMN has more content than one could imagine. I would venture to say that they are not interested in meaningless SNP genotyping they want to create relative medical knowledge out of the variance data to create assay's that the intelligentsia can use for association studies.This is making ILMN the standard in the industry.ILMN's future is in selling reagents and creating chips by aggregating content for point of care use.ILMN's strategy was to break the cost barrier so wide spread use would be feasible economically. ILMN's chips are MEM's based and self assemble so they more efficient than AFFX's archaic photolithographic process.
      ILMN is the thought leader and the price leader. There is plenty of business for both-however AFFX is terrified, check out their releases it is news designed to show the investment community how they will compete with ILMN.

    • That is unless Affy is intentionally price gouging to get a peice of the pie for publicity reasons. Is this a possibility.

    • So let me get this straight. ILMN is the clear winner in this deal because (1) participation in the HapMap project demonstrated ILMN's technical superiority, (2) they didn't want this deal in the first place, and (3) they can make better use of SNPs designed for AFFX arrays than AFFX can.

      I'd guess that ILMN got paid a lot more than $0.01 per genotype for their work so maybe you're right that they didn't want this deal. On the other hand that doesn't seem to bode well for your argument that ILMN will squeeze AFFX on price.

    • Call AFFX and ask them.

    • "ILMN can make assay's out of this data and AFFX can not"

      Your comment seems silly. AFFX isn't in this game for shits and giggles. Their aim is to make and sell microarrays for profit, and they will sell SNP assays. Nothing will stop that. The question is how many will ILMN and AFFX each sell, and how will the market develop? I don't know. But the news today signals to me that ILMN cannot automatically be assumed to be the leader in SNP genotyping. Just trying to keep an open mind.

    • What do you mean by justify?

    • could you justify some of your statements?

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