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ConocoPhillips Message Board

  • chartwiz43 chartwiz43 Jan 12, 2005 4:00 PM Flag


    Yes! I get pie!!


    I was wrong and I admit it! You win! :)

    I would say that the chart now favors being long...that is why you always wait for confirmation.

    I see no downside to the stock at this point. It slipped through resistance and should continue to climb.

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    • Well, there are at least a few million people who agree with me. And a very large corporation pays me good money to do more than buy apples my man!!

      You are yet to present a valid argument that
      1) social security is NOT an income tax
      2) social security is a government benefits program

      It is not currently an investment account.

      Others call it a ponzi scheme. I don't disagree but it could be fixed. But you and your kind want to close your eyes and ignore the base problem: at some point the demographics of this country show that there will be too many people drawing too much out of the system compared to the number of people paying into the system.

      Do you not agree that outflows will exceed inflows?

    • Joeay you have been consistent in stating that the social security tax is just another income tax and attempt to convince others that it is no different that any other income tax. Many millions of Americans are not buying your argument! If you cannot tell the difference, I wouldn't trust you with the assignment of going to a fruit market and buying some apples.

      Regards, B.F.

    • But it is still an income tax, right??

    • You are right about the $1.25 for every dollar...but that is today. What will it be in 10 years? 20 years?? Forecasts say it will be at best $1 for $1 and many say it will be more like 75cents for every $1. That's the problem. The future is not sustainable!! Unless more old folks want to keep working longer which I don't think they will or that they should!!

    • That's fine. Believe what you want. But, its called FICA tax for a is a tax. it is not a government retirement system. You are forced to pay in by the government...that is a tax. You get to pull out of it much more than you contribute and the earnings attributed to it. That is a government program.

      That is not a bad thing by the way. If that's what the country wants to have, then great. But let's stop fooling ourselves that this isn't just another tax.

      And I agree...I will never convince you or your peers. I'm not intending on it and never doubted that you folks aren't going to change your mind. I'm aiming for others who will never see a dime from SS unless they are TAXED more, rising from the 8+% today (plus the employer's 8+%) to something over 20% in the next generation. That on top of our beautiful 20-40% other income tax will cause people to force a change. Its called a tax revolt and its coming to a government near you!!

    • Eliminating agencies and services??? Sounds GRRRREEEEAAAAATTTTT as Tony the Tiger would say!! The more, the merrier. How about we strip it down to the bare bones and start over again?

    • Agree-once again the goverment is ripping us off. Heres the situation-all goverment employees have the best pension benefits and medical benefits. In return they do no work. The Republicans under Bush will do nothing about this real problem-instead they have all discussion focused on SS. SS is not the problem. Who is looking out for the average(up to 150,000/yr) worker who will probably have no pension? Nobody. Answer me this-how does anybody not making 75,000/yr survive?

    • a) I agree that the general fund is in as much trouble as the SS fund. Especially since they are now inter-mixed anyway.


      b) current proposed reform does NOT eliminate the systems current indebtedness

      c) even MORE importantly, while currently SS takes in more than it pays out that will soon (roughly 10 years depending on whose numbers you choose to use) start paying our more than they take in. That is when those certificates of indebtedness start coming do. Then in 25 to 50 years even that cupboard is bare and SS becomes a direct (and increasing) drag on the general fund above and beyond indebtedness.

      So to answer your question, both systems and thus all of us.

    • lc_copper to bve absolutely clear the distinction between the FICA tax and the general income tax is that the FICA or Social Security tax is a designated tax as opposed to the general income tax!

      Regards, B.F.

    • "There are a few facts you might not be aware of that distinguishes the FICA tax from an ordinary income tax. (1). The tax is only imposed on earned income, you pay no FICA on capital gains, interest income, dividend income, royalty income (unless you were the creator), or rental income."

      First, none of this information (or anything else in your post is new information to myself or most people.

      But more importantly, just what in your quoted statement changes the fact that FICA is in fact a tax. A tax on income. Sure there are earnings exempted, but the same can be said for many other income taxes. Just because not all income is taxed, doesn't mean that it isn't an income tax.

      BTW, the rest of your posts discusses the disposition of the collected tax not on whether it is a tax or not. Like I said previously, the current scheme is flawed (basically a ponzi scheme). The proposed individually directed accounts for a % of the collected funds is probably a better idea but also far from perfect.

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