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Geron Corporation (GERN) Message Board

  • thestudent1999 thestudent1999 Jan 24, 2006 10:35 AM Flag

    PSA and TVAX

    I just don't get it. Even if the vaccine as currently formulated or administered doesn't cure prostate cancer, it definitely has a big effect on PSA doubling time. But telomerase and the prostate gland are pretty unrelated things, normally...

    Merck makes an investment in Geron...

    But, price is lower than they paid.

    I would say that current price is pretty darn surprising.

    I don't get it. I would have bet a lot after last summer that we would still be above Merck price, at least.

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    • Were you born an asshole or did you work at it your whole life?

    • >>LOL "relatively short study" This Ph I/II is 4-1/2 years old. I don't think there's an update, but there certainly has been reiteration, as recently as the last presentation. It seems to me that if the data changed, they'd not repeat that statement. <<

      You're full of shit as usual, esammee. If the data hasn't been updated you can't assume anything about what happened beyond the period of time covered by the the presentations.

      micro

    • my misunderstanding (and perhaps others as well), thanx for clarifying it and for speaking to layman.

    • Ok, just to make it clear, what I meant by Big Idea is that telomerase is not a special component of a normal prostate and yet a vaccine sensitizing the body to telomerase had a big effect on PSA. Pretty darn important.

      PSA levels increase even after a prostate is removed because of metastasis.

    • Your �big idea� post was:
      <<<I just don't get it. Even if the vaccine as currently formulated or administered doesn't cure prostate cancer, it definitely has a big effect on PSA doubling time. But telomerase and the prostate gland are pretty unrelated things, normally...

      Merck makes an investment in Geron...

      But, price is lower than they paid.

      I would say that current price is pretty darn surprising.

      I don't get it. I would have bet a lot after last summer that we would still be above Merck price, at least.>>

      My response was �PSA doubling time assertion was based an extrapolation, which may not be very meaningful since cancer constantly mutates. I[t] could mutate to sic[make] tvax less effective.�
      Although my comment regarding extrapolation was obvious because the study did not last 8 years, I actually emailed gern and asked and was told that the conclusion was based on an extrapolation. As to the possible mutation of cancer (which has been discussed by both micro and cf numerous times, and is reflected by most cancer treatments because they become less effective over time) Even you agree with that.

      The other part of my response was: �as pointed out many times, mrk has about 100 or more of these deals; it's not unique. Also, there are many competitors.�

      Do you disagree with that? I don�t see how you could?

      I readily admit my limited knowledge, am more than a little grateful for any information that I receive on this board. I take the time to try tounderstand the posts.
      Let me suggest that what you characterize as your annoyance had more to with your desired to be unpleasant and insulting rather than anything else. ( a lot of posters on the board use it for that purpose. With some exceptions, I�ve tried to avoid the mud)

      Finally, your comment that �But telomerase and the prostate gland are pretty unrelated things, normally...� seems oddly misplaced for someone who would be annoyed by things such as a lack of footnoting. First, most of the patients in the TVAX duke ph I/II had a radical prostatectomy; consequently, it seems (to a layman) that the prostate glan was not directly involved, although perhaps indirectly. Second, telomerase is expressed in the overwhelming majority of cancers.(if you need authority i suggest you visit the gern web site) If TVAX is effective in this category of patients it could be effective in many other types of cancers. Thus, your �big idea� is perhaps bigger than you realize.

    • I guess what would have limited my annoyance is if you bothered "footnoting".

      Anyway, my question in essence was, and maybe I could have phrased it more politely, if you have any knowledge about the subject outside of these message boards and I think you answered it implicitly.

      I point out the Big Idea of TVAX and prostate cancer and then you bring up something that doesn't really address that, but since you don't really understand the subject, I readily see why you responded that way.

    • may be. i don't recall specifically. in any event, we're on the same page in terms of what we want (TVAX to work and gern pps to increase).
      that's all for awhile; back to work.

    • LOL "relatively short study" This Ph I/II is 4-1/2 years old. I don't think there's an update, but there certainly has been reiteration, as recently as the last presentation. It seems to me that if the data changed, they'd not repeat that statement. (and imho I'm sure they're still tracking)

      btw, though I don't remember, didn't CF say that the mutation issue was a far possibility, not really likely in his opinion?

    • PSA doubling time assertion was based an extrapolation, which may not be very meaningful since cancer constantly mutates. I could mutate to tvax less effective. as pointed out many times, mrk has about 100 or more of these deals; it's not unique. Also, there are many competitors. finally gern moves so slowly, that we may all be dead before anything comes to market.
      Having said all that, i'm still long. i hope that Dr. Viewig will move quickly to bring TVAX to market. His involvement, together with MRK may be sufficient to bring TVAX (or some variation)to market by 2010-2012. Also, it's possible that stem cells for spinal injury could occur this year, but i wouldn't count on it.

      • 1 Reply to guaif1
      • My sense, guaf1 is that everything you have learned about biology comes from yahoo message boards. Am I right?

        Cancer cells don't *constantly* mutate; and in this case, if telomerase is in fact a fundamental mechanism of cancer, that would be some pretty significant mutation.

        Most of the changes that cancer cells exhibit over generations are more subtle, such as resistance to a given chemo or presenting different antigens on their surface.

    • I agree with you. I don't get it either??

      • 1 Reply to blackmarango
      • I guess my point, undermined but not defeated by the dismal price performance, if that it seems very compelling that either the vaccine or inhibitor (if not BOTH) will end up being useful in the treatment of cancer.

        We hear independent verification of telomerase involvement in cancer from varied sources, we have Merck's vote of confidence.

        I will take this opportunity to point out that contacting the health care professionals involved in trials (who do not know why you are calling but probably assume you or a loved one are sick) and then blabbing about this on an investment message board can only have negative consequence for people (can you think how??). Please stop contacting them for this, and certainly stop blabbing.

 
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