% | $
Quotes you view appear here for quick access.

Altair Nanotechnologies, Inc. Message Board

  • j_investor j_investor Dec 30, 2011 3:32 PM Flag


    81 buses in 2012? Is this date wrong in the FORM S-4/A filed yesterday?

    “Proterra expects to produce 81 transit buses in 2011 and has indicated it is close to closing large contracts in Europe and South America.”

    Proterra is currently working on projects in California, Texas and Washington and recently announced that five major urban transit agencies received more than $25 million in grants from the Federal Transit Administration (FTA) to purchase 20 fast charge battery electric buses and 4 EV charging stations. To our knowledge, the only vehicles that can meet the specifications in the grants are Proterra's EcoRide BE-35TM buses and FastFillTM Charging Stations. Proterra expects to produce 81 transit buses in 2011 and has indicated it is close to closing large contracts in Europe and South America. To meet this increase in demand, Proterra is in the process of expanding its production capacity to a goal of more than 1,500 buses per year with the ability to expand further if necessary. As Proterra continues to grow we look forward to expanding our relationship and working together to enhance the value of their transit solutions.

    We have been supplying Proterra Inc., a leading designer and manufacturer of heavy-duty drive systems, vehicle control systems, transit buses, and fast charging stations, with battery modules since 2009. In June of 2010 we formalized this relationship with the signing of a long-term supply agreement to provide our advanced lithium-ion battery modules for incorporation into Proterra’s all-electric and hybrid-electric buses. Proterra’s flagship EcoRide TM , BE-35 is a 35-foot all- electric transit bus designed from the ground up to enable transit agencies to replace conventional diesel buses on a one-for-one basis with the world’s first all-electric buses. This is accomplished by combining Proterra’s light-weight composite body, highly efficient ProDrive TM , advanced TerraVolt TM energy storage system and on- route rooftop FastFill TM station to provide the first full size transit vehicle that meets California’s Zero Emission Bus (Zbus) Rules. Proterra’s FastFill TM charge system is comprised of the software and hardware to rapidly charge the TerraVolt TM Energy Storage System (powered by our battery modules) from 0% to 95% with >92% energy charge efficiency in as little as six minutes. The combination of these systems provides a potentially disruptive solution to fleet vehicle operators offering fuel efficiencies between 17.5 and 29 miles per gallon (diesel equivalent range) which is on average more than 500% better than competing solutions.

    page 62

    SortNewest  |  Oldest  |  Most Replied Expand all replies
    • this is a good laugh ... this is what happens when you "build inventory" and can't sell anything!
      << Net cash used in operating activities was $13.5 million for the nine months ended September 30, 2011 and $9.9 million for the nine months ended September 30,
      2010. For the nine months ending September 30, 2011 deferred revenues decreased by $1.0 million. For the nine months ending September 30, 2010 deferred revenues
      increased by $3.2 million. This $4.2 million swing is the primary reason for our increased cash burn of $3.7 million from 2010 to 2011. >> Hopefully something can be done about burning almost $4 million per quarter!

    • This is also not good news ... especially since it is listed lower in the document.
      << Until then, however, we are experiencing a long sales cycle and don’t expect that to materially change in the near future. >> materially ... meaning no sales?

    • this confirms what was posted earlier.
      << Expansion Into China. In late 2011 and 2012, we are forming a WFOE in China. We expect that a substantial portion of our sales, and eventually our
      manufacturing, will be conducted by this WFOE in China. We are in the early stage of this initiative. >> but there is a statement just before that that YTE may suspend purchases indefinately. that is not good news.

    • page 61 has other good info. 250 C has to be impressive!
      << Materials we are using in our lab operate at 250 o C before the critical temperature is reached. The batteries we and
      our partners are developing for high power applications often consist of dozens or even thousands of battery cells working together as part of a single modular battery
      unit. When a large number of cells are aggregated into a single battery unit, the likelihood of, and risks associated with, thermal runaway increases. In this context, we
      believe that the additional temperature margin our individual battery cells experience before reaching the critical temperature makes our battery cells better suited than
      competing lithium ion batteries for the high-power applications we are targeting.

    • well good ... now we know ALGI can only issue 131,000,000 more shares without shareholder approval. Thats much better then unlimited ...

    • another laugh ... remember they gave Proterra the rights to the technology under certain conditions ... what else will Proterra get in any future contract ... if any?
      << Our nano-lithium titanate battery materials and battery business is dependent upon a few current or potential customers, including a small number of electric grid
      power generators, an affiliate of Canon and smaller companies developing electric or hybrid electric buses. In addition, many of these customers are, or are expected to
      be, development partners who are subsidizing the research and development of products for which they may be the sole, or one of a few, potential purchasers. As a
      result of the small number of potential customers and partners, our existing or potential customers and partners may have significant leverage on pricing terms,
      exclusivity terms and other economic and noneconomic terms. This may harm our attempts to sell products at prices that reflect desired gross margins. In addition, the
      decision by a single customer to abandon use or development of a product, budget cutbacks, funding reductions, liquidity shortages and other events may harm the
      ability of a single customer to continue to purchase products or continue development and may significantly harm both our financial results and the development track of
      one or more products. >>
      there was another warning previously about perhaps not having profitable margins on sales to YTE.

    • again Terry led us to believe this problem was solved with the supplier.
      << An area in which our dependence upon a limited number of sources creates significant vulnerability is the manufacturing of our nano-lithium titanate cells. Prior to
      the fourth quarter of 2010, we relied upon a single supplier of nano-lithium titanate cells. We experienced significant quality issues with this supplier in early 2010 and
      continue to have quality issues with this supplier. In late 2010, we completed validation for a second supplier and began receiving shipments from that second supplier
      without any quality issues to date. Our nano-lithium titanate battery cells are the building blocks of all of our products (other than our nano-lithium titanate powder >>
      at least they confirm the second supplier is making non leaking cells!

      • 1 Reply to tactlessforever
      • and again later in the document ... still no supply agrement with the 2nd vendor.
        << We are now
        receiving volume shipments of high quality battery cells from this second supplier. Once the final documentation steps are completed with this validation process, and
        all conditions are satisfied under the development contract and initial consignment and master supply agreement, we plan to initiate the long term contract with this
        second contract manufacturer. At that point, we will be required to purchase at least $15 million in product from such contract manufacturer over the next several years.
        >> so who does ALGI anticipate selling these $15 million cells to? OK real you can easily calculate how many Proterra buses or ALTI ESS Advantage sales that would take!

    • this one is a real laugh! delay an expected increase in revenues!
      Again one of these Terry led us to believe could never happen!
      <<This majority
      acquisition presents certain risks to us, including the following:

      • Certain of our existing or potential customers or suppliers may be reluctant to do business with a company controlled by a single shareholder, or a China-
      based affiliate of a battery manufacturer, and, as a result, may cancel or choose not to make, orders;
      • We may experience significant turnover in key management, technical or other employees;
      • Because of the physical distance, cultural differences and language difference between the United States and China, we may experience conflicts or
      inefficiencies in Board-management communication, management-employee communication, strategy formation and other parts of our business; this risk
      may be exacerbated by the fact that most of the nominees proposed by Canon do not speak English;
      • We plan to spend a portion, possibly a substantial portion, of the proceeds from the Canon transaction on a sales office, and eventually
      manufacturing and/or assembly facilities, in China; this project may divert management attention and consume a significant amount of capital;
      • As a majority shareholder, Canon may be able to influence our Board of Directors to enter into transactions with Canon affiliates that are more favorable to
      such Canon affiliate than would be negotiated by an independent Board of Directors. A particular risk in this area relates to the protection of trade secrets
      if, and as, employees of Canon affiliates, such as YTE, are hired by us and/or we participate in joint development or technology development and sharing
      arrangements with YTE or other Canon affiliates; and
      • Our new Board of Directors may direct us to abandon significant existing initiatives and direct technical, manufacturing and sales resources toward new
      products or projects. Any significant change in direction of the business may delay an expected increase in revenues as we start a new development or sales
      cycle for one or more new products or services.>>

    • After 1 year ALGI still doesn't know if YTE can use its technology? That is of major concern. And Terry promised us one of these could never happen!
      <<If one or more of these risks materializes in a significant manner, we may not experience the anticipated benefits from our relationship with Canon or YTE, which may
      harm our business and operations.
      • YTE may be unable to use our nano-lithium titanate or battery technology in its products and, as a result, may not purchase products from us long term;
      • Even if YTE is able to integrate our nano-lithium titanate and/or technology into its products, it may not be able to achieve significant sales with its
      • We may be unable to continue to reach agreement with YTE on the pricing of any products or services we supply them or may, as a result of market or
      other circumstances, be compelled to agree to prices that are not consistent with profitability;
      • As a result of the terms of the Conditional Supply and Technology Licensing Agreement, subsequent agreements or gaps in our intellectual property
      protection, Canon or YTE may be able to exploit our technology under circumstances in which we do not receive significant economic benefits; and
      • Canon may not be able to, or exert significant efforts to, provide us access to the Chinese markets, particularly if our products could compete with products
      produced by YTE. >>
      I would sure like to actually see YTE market anything with ALTI dust. What ever happend to ALTI ESS we shipped them?

      • 1 Reply to tactlessforever
      • I guess this explains it ... going to China without YTE?
        << In September of 2010 we signed a supply agreement with YTE, an affiliate of Canon, to provide 122 metric tons of nano-lithium titanate powder by the end of
        2011. Purchasing under the agreement was suspended in February 2011. We and YTE are reviewing this agreement in connection with our plan to expand
        operations into China, and we are uncertain whether purchasing under the agreement will be reinstated. >>
        not good IMO ... perhaps we can get Mr FU to vouch for us? LOL

    • Will we know the outcome of INE b4 the vote? My calculation is Jan 17th unless it is business days.
      << on September 12, 2011, we entered into a 120-day extension of the automatic termination provisions
      of the contract, in each case in order to allow the various parties additional time to resolve these regulatory issues. We may be unable to resolve the regulatory issues
      with the existing agreement or may otherwise be unable to enter into a new agreement with INE. If not, we will lose anticipated revenue and lose the expected
      marketing benefits we expected following the completion of the installation of the ALTI-ESS system. >> Hopefully it won't be positive until after the vote!
      I need to wash my mouth out ... even thinking it might be positive! LOL

    • View More Messages