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  • never_nuf never_nuf Mar 17, 2001 8:40 PM Flag

    Tax the rich MORE...

    Bee_Man sez:

    "I have a third alternative. Do away with all income and SS tax and hammer everybody equally at the cash register."

    Suppose we expand that beyond the cash register, and tax EVERY dollar that changes hands for ANY reason. If every financial transaction were flat-taxed the per dollar tax rate would be so inconsequential as to have almost no effect on purchasing necessities. Deduct this tiny tax from every paycheck, and again on every transaction at the point of sale, or when it goes into (or comes out of) a checking or savings account. These would be such small deductions that there would be very little load on society's poor.

    But a one-rate, absolutely universal, no exemption, no exception, tax on every dollar every time it changes hands would automatically produce the great bulk of its revenue from the wealthiest individuals, organizations, and corporations. Most tax would derive from commercial, industrial, military spending; money exchanges between financial instutions, brokerage houses and real estate transactions; and money coming in from overseas, and the bucks going out to foreign countries.

    Let's hear it for a "moving dollar" tax, and free up these great hordes of people involved in tax related occupations. They can re-direct their energies into more productive endeavors and become contributing members of society. Meanwhile, I could discontinue being an involuntary bookkeeper for the Gov every year, and never again fear an audit.

    nuf . . .

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    • Re: Moving tax.

      Oh sure..... Throw one out there I have to think about:-)

      At what rate would you tax this moving of money or a "Money Toll".

      Say I deposit a thousand bucks in my business account. The way I read your tax, the consumer and the business would be charged a "Money Toll" to move this grand. Now, I have to pay for materials to run the business on. I'll be charged a "Money Toll" to move this money over to my supplier. My supplier receives this money in payment and then, at time of deposit, they'll be hit up with a "Money Toll" for deposit. Now they will pay their supplier of the material I bought from them and they will be hit a "Money Toll" to pay their supplier.... and on and on and on and on.

      Have you thought this all the way through to the logical conclusion or is this still in the idea phase?

      Being that this has a sort of intangible to it. What will be the effective tax rate on the consumer when it comes time to pay for a car, shoes or gasoline at the pump?

      I realize from your comment that you might be speaking about something in the order of one percent. Not having any national banking numbers in front of me, I can't do the math. Could you please provide me with some assistance with the math numbers.

      Outwardly it sounds like an excellent idea.

      I believe it's high time the poor stop crying that I'm a victim, put their head in the yoke along with all the rest of us poor working stiffs and start paying their way. They use the roads, buses, schools, libraries, sewers and city run water systems along with everybody else. They call the police and cause the police to be called. They have houses that burn and use the emergency rooms just like everybody else. They have benefits the rest don't, like food stamps, Section 8 housing, AFDC (Aid For Dependent Children), subsidized education at CET (Center for Education and Training) and who knows how many other special interest programs for the losers in our society. If they're a minority, laws have even been written to give them special consideration when it comes to government contracts, lovingly known as "The quota system".

      I'm all for any system that makes everybody pull their own weight and pay equally across the income levels. I'm for any system that rewards those who are successful and provides people who aren't successful with the opportunity to better themselves. I'm against the current system that punishes those that are successful and rewards those who are failures with special programs without any strings attached. I'm against a system that rewards those who refuse to take advantage of the help that's offered to better themselves by feeling sorry for them to the point of giving them a thirty plus thousand dollar a year life style with no expectations.

      This out of the Washington Post and published on page 13A in the March 16th issue of the "San Jose Mercury News".

      "The 400 wealthiest taxpayers pay about as much in federal income taxes as more than 40 million individuals and families at the bottom of the income scale, according to Internal Revenue Service data."

      "Those 400 taxpayers paid about $8.7 billion in taxes last year, more than enough to fund the State Department and its 30,000 employees in 250 embassies, consulates and other offices worldwide.

      The above information was drawn a 1995 IRS file.

      "The bottom 40 percent of the taxpaying population, who contribute about 1 percent of income-tax revenue pay about 14 percent of overall payroll taxes." I like this next line..... "The top 1 percent pay only 4 percent of all payroll taxes." (Because of caps)

      Notice!!!!! All Democrats are welcome and encouraged to send to the US Treasury Department any and all monies above what they are currently sending in, in the form of taxation. Nothing is stopping you from sending in more.

      • 1 Reply to Bee_Man458
      • You ask: <At what rate would you tax this moving of money or a �Money Toll�>

        Gee, I don�t know, but considering the way money travels I suspect a rate that would support the government in the manner to which it has become accustomed, and considering the reduced public payroll resulting from such a tax plan, an acceptable rate would probably be a fraction of a penny per dollar (mills). Especially considering �...a one-rate, absolutely universal, no exemption, no exception...� bite from EVERY dollar. Yes, that same dollar gets hit over and over and over, but at a rate of 1 mill it would have to go through a thousand transactions to be depleted. As it is now, I deplete my dollar in three income tax cycles!! Good lord, just think of all the legal and quasi-legal money-changing that goes on which is invisible to the tax collectors. Obviously, there will still be criminal, illegal activities which never were and never will be taxed.

        <Have you thought this all the way through to the logical conclusion or is this still in the idea phase?>

        No, I haven�t spent a great deal of time, and zilch research on this. It�s just that I keep hearing �tax reform�, �flat tax�, and � national sales tax� as possible solutions to our totally unfair, burdensome income tax, and I just wondered, what if...?

        <What will be the effective tax rate on the consumer when it comes time to pay for a car, shoes, or gasoline at the pump?>

        As stated earlier, the tax rate would be a fixed, flat, universal number. The rate would be arrived at by the accountants, actuaries, mathmaticians and politicians (ugh!) according to the requirments of the government as computed against the slippage rate of the collection system.

        Now, the collection system could be a sticky wicket. It requires someone much sharper than me to devise an efficient, trackable method for keeping everyone relatively honest (yeah, like they are now).

        I have lived with the current (as annually revised) tax systems for nigh on to three score ten years, and fully expect to contend with it for the rest of my days. Still, it is entertaining to consider possible alternatives to an almost broken systems. That is as long as one doesn�t become obsessed.

        nuf . . .

    • Your taxes are going to Texas.