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VirnetX Holding Corp Message Board

  • nicklaus999 nicklaus999 Feb 28, 2013 3:40 PM Flag

    Failure to Delivery question re. Reverse Conversions

    What I would like to know is this. In all of this reverse conversion how do they (shorts) keep VHC from showing up on the REG Sho list (failure to deliver). If they do a reverse conversion and then have shares to short like yesterday, say 400,000 and then they go sell those into the marketplace using the mm's exemption status. . . who is buying that stock? Those buyers are going to want their shares and if the seller (hedge funds) don't deliver you will get FTD's. How are they staying off the FTD list? If retail is buying that stock then they are obviously going to demand their stock by settlement. If it's a legit fund or someone who wants to buy their short back they are going to want their stock. What I am wondering is are the buyers of those shares in on the scam and therefore not requesting the stock and somehow avoiding the delivery status and notification by settlement, therefore avoiding the REG SHO requirments?

    There have been no shares to borrow on a retail or institutional level for a long long time now and even if there were there's no way the hedgies are going to be paying 30% or whatever it is to borrow them. I just don't understand how over the course of all these reverse conversions from whenever they have started that VHC is not always on the REG SHO list for failure to deliver. We are talking many millions of shares here. Maybe I am missing something obvious as I am not the options expert that some are here, but I'd love an explanation if someone has one. Thx

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    • Oh, I can answer that one! People like Gilford lend shares they short to mm's who water it down. They then pay contratually several of the bone heads who used to cold call for them pusihing the drug of the day. these bozos use the options on gilfords behalf to wedge the retail. Hence the wedge' . from the hedge' further more you dont have to have the shares eod... never had to... this is how we made $$$$. you dont need to be smart you need to play the game, and this is an easy play.

    • Nick I think they are just rolling those conversion. Say Monday they cover and another short fund starts this all over again, something like that. I believe they are trading amongst each other to stay off the FTD and Reg Sho lists. I am not sure of the exact mechanics but believe it all goes on among each other.. Maybe They can cover in a dark pool. I know you have had that conversation before but I have seen trades not show up on the volume charts that correspond almost exactly to the conversion shares created.The process can go on for ever., well almost forever. It has to be something like this cause I have scratched my head as well wondering how it all happens over and over. I think it has been mentioned that you were a trader,does this make sense.

      • 2 Replies to willie7
      • you are spot on. I didnt read your post and said the same thing!

      • So, my question then is if those buyers are in on the manipulation as I think they are. Are they not asking for delivery of their stock? If not, then aren't all those reverse conversion long sales (which are really short sales) and shares still short as they have to other side of trade? If that is the case then many many millions of shares are added to the 16mm reported short position.

        I have no doubt that multiple market makers and multiple funds are in on this together. I am not one to believe in the dark pools for VHC simply because there isn't the liquidity of the sizeable institutional sellers willing to sell their stock to the shorts so they can buy and cover. I am really intrigued by the lack of FTD's after the reverse conversions. This to me means the buyers aren't taking delivery of all that stock that is sold into the marketplace which means that all those additional shares are short. I don't think delivery is ever being made to the buyers of the common and who knows maybe delivery is never being made on the options side either. If this logic holds you can make the argument that the naked short shares are astronomical after adding up all these reverse conversions. Thoughts?

    • Look, I don't need anyone to tell me what the SEC does or doesn't do or how manipulated the markets are. I am well aware of that. I aksed a specific question. If you know and can answer it great and if you don't then don't bother. There are two sides to every trade and legit buyers will want their stock. I somehow think part of this reverse conversion BS is that there are multiple parties colluding on the scam and in this part colluding on the buy side of the short sell off.

    • nick, just remember, the SEC is a willing participant in all these scams. They do nothing to stop them, just as if you were with me and I robbed someone. You would be an accomplice. The SEC is well aware of what's going on and they turn their back on it, making them even more guilty than the parties involved in this scam because they're the enforcement agency!

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