Fri, Jul 25, 2014, 3:34 AM EDT - U.S. Markets open in 5 hrs 56 mins


% | $
Click the to save as a favorite.

Alpine Total Dynamic Dividend F Message Board

  • jimkress20 jimkress20 May 16, 2010 6:00 PM Flag


    It's curios how mny people who don't own this fund talk it down.

    SortNewest  |  Oldest  |  Most Replied Expand all replies
    • and this message list is a real beauty. this is where marv really got me going with his BS.

      kind of like shirley is doing now.

    • marvs,

      i know what you are saying but you have to think about reality. people do rely on the monthly income from AOD and/or SPY. but normally, they are not spending the dividend the same month that they get it. i think most investors have a pool of cash to support their lifestyle, maybe only 3 months or perhaps 6 months. personally i keep two years. so i'm always weighted more cash than most.

      so that is why i think it is "wrong" to model selling SPY every month to cover your expenses for such month. the scenario you set forth (and i can't really follow the math) might apply to 1% of AOD holders, my scenario applies to the balance (that would be 99%).

    • Still doesn't take into account the fact that you would have to sell your SPY on a monthly basis at whatever the market price was on the AOD ex-div date to simulate your AOD income.

      Over the months your pool of SPY holding gets smaller and smaller reducing your overall profit at the end of the period.

      Using the period and amounts you have chosen you would need to sell off approx $10930 (incurring tax @ 25%) to give $8200 of SPY to supply the equivalent to AOD income leaving only $6800 profit (incurring more tax @ 25%).

      Calculating the tax leaves SPY with only $5100 profit after tax. This is assuming that you enter your position at the beginning of the period and exit the full position at the end.

      If you were to extend this exercise over a longer period you would see a large draw down total shares owned in SPY compared to AOD. Would SPY shares rise enough to keep pace with AOD income over a longer period...who knows....but eventually you would run out of SPY and be left with nothing.

      Investor objectives should not be left out of any comparative analysis, that's all I'm trying to get at.

    • i live in a box ? what are you a tax accountant ? taxes taxes taxes. WTF ?

      it seems you are stuck on the difference btwn the tax rate on div income and capital gains. it is best to evaluate investment performance BEFORE applying any analysis of taxes. why ? because your tax situation might be different than someone else.

      w/o doing too much work (i've got to catch a ferry over to macau today for some gambling), let's look at an extreme case. some poor bastard invested all his money in AOD. 100% of his income comes from AOD dividends. in this case, i'd guess this person is really hurting for money (they don't have any other income/salary). do you think they are going to be in a high tax bracket for capital gains ? i'd say the difference btwn the two tax rates might not be as great as you think.

      so take the 10/1/09 to 3/24/10 period that i've noted in several threads. SPY +15%. AOD +10%. if you had invested $100,000, you'd have a 15k profit versus a 10k profit. if you apply a 25% tax to the SPY account and a 15% tax to the AOD account, the SPY's leave you with an after tax profit of $11,250 while the AOD account is at $8,500 (after tax).

      now i suggest you complete your homework assignment so you can continue your education. i'm here to help you.

    • Do you know the difference between income and capital gain?

      You live inside the 'box' don't you as there doesn't seem to be any thinking outside of it.

    • hey marvs,

      a funny thing happened when i looked at the top 10 holdings for AOD on their website. guess what ?

      they set forth the funds performance against the S&P 500 right there on their fact sheet. wow.

      so i've got a homework assignment for you. here it is:

      question: on the fact sheet, why are the returns on AOD against the S&P 500 overstated ?

      hint: March 31, 2010. AOD 9.05. XAODX 6.68.
      March 21, 2009. AOD 5.74. XAODX 5.94.

    • marvs,

      this is how the fund mgrs evaluate themselves. if you listened to some AOD conf calls, you'd see them compare their performance to the S&P 500.

      you don't seem to understand the numbers, maybe i was not totally clear. i've added back the dividends paid by AOD so i don't have to take out monthly divs from the SPY's.

      trying to compare the two using an analysis of reinvesting the dividends is too much work for me. but i'd guess that the returns for AOD would be even worse if you did that - buying a stock that goes down doesn't usually provide positive returns on dividend reinvestments. in other words, i add .18 cents for the first dividend paid out in april 2008 (per my two year measurement period). if that had been reinvested, it would probably be worth less than 9 cents today. or how about the 12 cent div paid in june of 09. that would also be in a loss position today so my adding back as cash provided a better number for AOD.

      is this beginning to make sense now ?

      by the way, i upgraded the fund from strong sell to sell given the recent drop. expecting to go to neutral once the div cut has been announced.

      please tell us something about your investments, etc... i've never seen you on the board before. i've been here since 2006.

    • I was in at the IPO price of 2o.oo...I shed alot of tears since then...then I had the bright idea that this stock had found its bottom and was poised for a nice recovery at which point I dumped another 30K in....ouch...more tears...I pulled out last week...AOD is spiraling down..divy will be cut soon and stock price will be a realistic 5.85...=NAV. You want some of that, go for it, I'm DONE!


      • 1 Reply to mister.wilbur
      • hey jim,

        most of the people that are negative on AOD (like me) have owned shares in the past. they are not just stopping by to bash today and begone tomorrow. i stay on this board as there are some generally intelligent posts, from time to time, on various investment topics.

        like a broken record, i'm going to go ahead an provide some historical performance for you and others:

        4/1/08 to 3/24/10 (i add back dividends):

        SPY -11%
        AOD -24%
        XAODX -34%

        10/1/09 to 3/24/10:

        SPY +15%
        AOD +10%
        XAODX +10%

        3/24/10 to 5/14/10:

        SPY -2.5%
        AOD -10.6%
        XAODX -11%

        the common theme here is the SPY's outperform AOD over the long term and the short term.

    • and the ones that talk the most...know the least about seems they come around every three months to make there prediction on how much the divi will be is some news...alpine will once again declare there 12 cent monthly divi for the next 3 months this week...actually i'm looking for nickel bump up...

      good luck....


8.93-0.01(-0.11%)Jul 24 4:00 PMEDT

Trending Tickers

Trending Tickers features significant U.S. stocks showing the most dramatic increase in user interest in Yahoo Finance in the previous hour over historic norms. The list is limited to those equities which trade at least 100,000 shares on an average day and have a market cap of more than $300 million.