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  • yournotjohngault yournotjohngault Apr 23, 2009 11:22 AM Flag

    Uncommon wisdom

    "Important principles may and must be flexible."
    Abraham Lincoln
    Source:Last Public Address, Apr 11, 1865

    "To state the question more directly, are all the laws, but one, to go unexecuted, and the government itself go to pieces, lest that one be violated? Even in such a case, would not the official oath be broken, if the government should be overthrown, when it was believed that disregarding the single law, would tend to preserve it?" Lincoln's Message to Congress in Special Session, July 4, 1861

    ""At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years. At what point, then, is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide. The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume I, "Address Before the Young Men's Lyceum of Springfield, Illinois (January 27, 1838), p. 109. "

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    • The report found that Maj. Paul Burney, a United States Army psychiatrist assigned to interrogations in Guantánamo Bay that summer of 2002, told Army investigators of another White House imperative: “A large part of the time we were focused on trying to establish a link between Al Qaeda and Iraq and we were not being successful.” As higher-ups got more “frustrated” at the inability to prove this connection, the major said, “there was more and more pressure to resort to measures” that might produce that intelligence.

      In other words, the ticking time bomb was not another potential Qaeda attack on America but the Bush administration’s ticking timetable for selling a war in Iraq; it wanted to pressure Congress to pass a war resolution before the 2002 midterm elections. Bybee’s memo was written the week after the then-secret (and subsequently leaked) “Downing Street memo,” in which the head of British intelligence informed Tony Blair that the Bush White House was so determined to go to war in Iraq that “the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy.” A month after Bybee’s memo, on Sept. 8, 2002, Cheney would make his infamous appearance on “Meet the Press,” hyping both Saddam’s W.M.D.s and the “number of contacts over the years” between Al Qaeda and Iraq. If only 9/11 could somehow be pinned on Iraq, the case for war would be a slamdunk.

      But there were no links between 9/11 and Iraq, and the White House knew it. Torture may have been the last hope for coercing such bogus “intelligence” from detainees who would be tempted to say anything to stop the waterboarding.

    • COWARD
      Answer the question.

    • "NotJohn, I've answered your questions, I'm sure not to your satisfaction but I've replied WITH AN ANSWER.

      Answer mine. WWJD."

      You answered nothing - you never do.

      WWJD? He'd probably CAP your ass as an act of Mercy.

    • "Alex actually"

      This might be the only time I agree with you 100%

    • Alex actually

    • "he did not stop his own torture"
      Thats a far cry from his condoning it.
      But my question relates to his teaching while living.
      If Jesus were confronted with the question of torture, how would he respond? Would his answer reflect acceptance "in the right circumstances", or would it be condemned?

    • Can you spell obsessed?

      W2, If you referring to me, I am hardly obsessed.
      This morning, after I checked my email, I was curious to see if you answered the question from yesterday. I find views opposite of mine interesting, and wanted to see if you had one set of values for everyone else and one set of values when it concerns you and your loved ones. I was disappointed to see that you would ask someone else WWJD, when you can't even answer WWW2D.

    • Can you spell obsessed?

    • Tell me, WWJD?

      W2, I don't know if you believe that Jesus was God, and I certainly don't speak for Jesus, but if you do believe that He is God, than it's interesting to note that he did not stop his own torture. If you remember he was beaten and nailed to a cross.

    • COWARD
      Afrid to answer the question

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