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OfficeMax Incorporated Message Board

  • paperwalls paperwalls Jul 9, 1998 9:01 PM Flag

    I wonder???

    Well, let's see.... Boise stock has bottomed and is on the rise?? Should I or shouldn't I?? I held some Boise stock several months ago, but really haven't watched it much lately. Anybody out there??

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    • down on heavy vol.(4x avg.) after cost cutting there some downgrade comming? More bad news?anybody?

    • BOP is buying CEXP. That's the whisper that's growing. (Although the deal may be done by BOP's parent co, BCC). Anyone else on this board heard this?

    • And god blessed them and told them,"Multiply and
      fill the earth and subdue it; you are masters of the
      fish and birds and all the animals. And look! I have
      given you the seed-bearing plants throughout the earth,
      and all the fruit trees for your food. And I've given
      all the grass and plants to the animals and birds for
      their food." Then god looked over all that he had made,
      and it was excellent in every way. This ended the
      sixth day.

      Genesis 1:28-1:31

    • Any more news regarding potential aquisition of BCC???

    • Word is that BCC is about to announce that it is
      being bought by one of two large paper concerns in
      Finland. (Kymene?) Any confirmation or heightened
      interest? I heard this from some folks that live in
      International Falls. I'm too much of a wimp to buy, but I wish
      I had some UCC stock the week before IP got `em.

    • seems apparent to me that you are good
      at coming to broad general conclusion based on
      little or no knowledge of a subject! Give me an example
      of one company, and I'll show you a company with its
      support staff distributed all over the place with even
      more personell working in an inefficient manner.
      Unless a company is building large paper machines they
      have no need for large Engineering staffs. The
      Engineering cuts were good, and I agree that we need more
      cuts. Maybe even upwards of 400, but our Accounting
      staff is over 200, our IS staff is over a hundred. I
      suppose it is hard for someone like you to fathom, but 10
      people can not do the work of 200! What do you suppose
      these people are doing....playing tiddly winks??!! Okay
      let's talk percentage. Do you imagine that it takes a
      set amount of people per dollar or mill? We could run
      the combination of a GP, an IP, and a Potlatch with
      just a few more HQ staff, and you can not say that if
      you close a mill you lose necessarily lose 10 Payroll
      jobs, and 5 IS people. It takes the same amount of
      personell to manage a server with 10000 user or 6000 users.

      The Solution for BCC is not to cut staff to a point
      were they can not function. The solution is for BCC to
      merge with someone else, and close one of the
      headquarters. An even better solution is for BCC to buy up some
      Asian pulp companies that are producing Paper and
      shipping it into the U.S. for hundreds less than we can
      sell it for. We also need to close down some of our
      old inefficient mills (some of the mills are over 80
      years old), but we can not do this due to environmental
      cleanup concerns.

      Ask your friend how many IS
      staff it takes to run a Mainframe, over 1000 PC
      Servers, over 6000 desktop PCs, 10 plus large Unix
      Servers, 5 AS/400's, over 110 locations, and dozens of
      other large computing assets? Ask him how many
      Accounting staff it takes to process Payroll for 17,000 +
      employees? Ask him how many Sales Reps it takes to sell
      Billions of dollars in Paper, Timber, Engineered wood
      products? The fact is he probably has no idea, and he would
      have to go ask some middle manager that probably
      couldn't give him a definitive number either.

      have visited many, and they are not that different
      than BCC. A good example is Potlatch they are much
      more decentralized than BCC, and that makes their
      support staff a lot less efficient....but they are
      consistently profitable because they have good paper machines,
      and control 40% of the tissue paper on the west

      Why don't you quit talking about things you have no
      idea about, and get out and visit a large
      corportation. What do you do for a living....deliver

    • Has anyone else heard the rumor that GP is
      looking at purchasing BCC? Not trying to start any rumors
      just curious because there has been idle talk in the
      GP chat room. Does this have anything to do with the
      rise in GP and BCC today or is it just a coincidence?
      Anyone have an opinion?

    • Yes indeed, bad shape is a very good description
      of companies that through the years have hired
      people just for the sake of years later telling them
      they are not needed anymore. All of these
      non-essential jobs have been created by the same people that
      make the pivotal day to day decisions that have put
      these companies in the positions of decay they are in.
      Needless to say the boneheads who run the companies hardly
      ever suffer the results of THEIR bad decisions. It
      always is the laborer who has been doing his job well
      but unfortunately is the result of top managements
      continued bad decisions.The non-essential jobs are all of
      the suits who sit around making exorbitate salaries
      to continually try to correct their last batch of
      bungled deficient decisions.

    • Boise Cascade is a poorly managed company with
      gobs of beuracracy. Their cost to procuce is about the
      same as what Asian companies like ARH and PAP are
      selling it for at huge profits. The only thing that will
      save them is for them to buy a low cost producer in

      BOP is not even close to being a first
      tier supplier, and until it becomes one BC isn't much
      better off than other Paper companies.

      I would
      not suggest buying it, but I must admit that I have
      thought about with the price down below book

      Some other notes: They just had a large mill burn to
      the ground...that costs money! They are closing mills
      in China, and Mexico.

      Until there is a major
      restructuring, and they start pursuing acqusitions, and REAL fat
      cutting they will never be profitable. Nobody is going to
      buy this company! In fact they have set-up poison
      pills to prevent it.

      • 3 Replies to LosingNow
      • Does anyone know anything about the announcement
        yesterday that Boise Cascade has fired it's ENTIRE research
        and development department and half of it's engineers
        and 2 vp's??? Is this the start of some real fat
        cutting?? Any ideas or thoughts, or rumours of this
        trickling down to the local levels??

      • LosingNow:

        BCC tried for years to buy
        paper operations in Asia. It ended up a total mess. The
        company has no international capability at all. You make
        a good point though...low cost Asian producers are
        killing U.S. papermakers and BCC is purely a U.S. player.
        They only have 4-5 mills left; hardly a significant
        force any longer. Oh, they make international
        attempts...but has one ever worked out?

        One more serious
        down-turn in the industry and they're history. There is no
        management talent left in the company, and when you couple
        this with the poison pill that you mentioned the share
        holders will lose big-time.

      • What mill burned? I have not heard anything of ths in the trades. Could you reference a web site or give the details yourself?

    • Keep your money outof paper stocks. Imports are
      up, coated and uncoated, and APRIL (Asia Pulp and
      Paper) has several large uncoated machines near
      completion. Overall, the economy seems to be softening, job
      growth is flat or negative, and the Asian situation
      appears not to have a quick solution. Lastly, Pulp prices
      are falling. These factors indicate, to me any how,
      that low margin, capital intensive, overly regulated
      industries are a bad place for your money, and mine as well.


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