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Newmont Mining Corporation Message Board

  • zeno451 zeno451 Jan 21, 2004 5:36 PM Flag

    The Barrick 600,000 Dehedged

    That equals just under 1% of the entire gold miner hedge book. These numbers are going to become more significant as the miners hedge books get reduced. As for this quarter I cannot see barrick closing more than one third of their committed hedges. Otherwise they will make no money whatsoever. Rolling over parts of their hedge book is their only possible course of action. Their numbers are going to stink in comparison to Nems. That is probably why they took a proactive approach and spilled the hedge book reduction beans before the pack.

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    • Zeno, they have almost 90 million oz. of reserves, and are short only 15.5 million. From the caps and profanity, I can sense you know you're losing the argument on its merits, but flame away (you sure you're an angel?).

    • While you talk about ABX, the central banks collude, manipulate currencies, sell gold from their immense reserves, manipulate interest rates, create financial news, etc.
      Even if ABX were what you claim, their role would be insignificant by comparison to the world's central banks, in my opinion.

    • I was in NEM when it ran up from 19 to 38, after which I sold and bought 3 ABX shares for each NEM share(using a little leverage). So, before you start talking about the gains I've missed, subtract 19 points from NEM's current price and multiply the recent ABX gains by 3.


      I think a big reason for ABX underperformance in 2002 is the unfortunate timing of the dump from the S&P500, but whatever the reason, the stock is now undervalued, in my opinion. In fact, I think ABX is buying back shares because they're worried that if they don't, someone else, possibly someone unfriendly, might buy them instead.

    • Are you arguing that it would be better if ABX did not have a strong credit rating? A good credit rating is how company's get financing, which some on this board were suggesting ABX would have trouble getting. I was just pointing out that the evidence is they have no need for external financing at the moment and would have little trouble obtaining it if they did.

    • You say, "Seems to me some feel that their investments can only succeed if they spread lies about the competition. I'm pro-gold and when you trash one of the strongest of the majors, I think it hurts all gold investors, not just ABX investors."

      What you seem to refuse to consider is that what Barrick is alledged to have done would have hurt the pog and the competition. ABX did brag in its annual reports and elsewhere about its ability to benefit from buying up mines when the pog was low.

      The evergreen hedge contracts are beyond what most would describe as normal hedge contracts. Yet so far the auditors and FASB give them a pass. And as long as they do, ABZ is o.k. but will show less profit than it would have, had it not hedged. Going forward this may or may not offset the $2 billion earned by hedging.

    • You fool Barrick is buying back its own shares to prop their stock price up. Even lighting a fire under their own share price has done diddly squat to keep them in sight of Nem. After the share buyback failure and while looking at $265(sept 30) production costs with approximately $315 the fixed price for their hedged gold off book based accounting practices and neglible interest rates for their financial companies return on their cash hoard derived from gold shortsgo awy you idiot... NO EXTERNAL AGENT HAS ACCESS TO THE REAL STATE OF BARRICKS ACCOUNTING FOR THE CASH HOARD IT DERIVED FROM SELLING THEIR GOLD SHORT. Didn't Enron have an excellent credit rating too? I bet you some of the cash from the gold sold short was in Enrons bonds as JPM was innvolved huh? Or world com ? Take your pick as returns on cash in the market are only guaranteed these days by the PPT...

    • <<By the way tao, you need to ask yourself why we get posters on the NEM board trying to sell and defend ABX. Some things are hidden in plain sight.>>
      I didn't start this thread, nor is it likely that I would start a thread about ABX on this board. Why not ask yourself why ABX comes up so frequently here.
      Seems to me some feel that their investments can only succeed if they spread lies about the competition. I'm pro-gold and when you trash one of the strongest of the majors, I think it hurts all gold investors, not just ABX investors.

    • Anything to make a buck. Only an idiot would own Barrick shares.

    • Who knows how much money the barrick financial company holding the proceeds from their short gold sales has lost. Bob Landis did a number on that barrick scam didn't he? THE BANKERS REFUSED TO ALLOW BARRICK TO HOLD THE PROCEEDS FROM THEIR SHORT GOLD SALES IN THE SUMMER OF LAST YEAR. only then did barrick first get serious about ending its gold hedging. When the hedge book went underwater the idiots then rolled over hedges instead of taking the few dollars loss per ounce. IDIOTS ALL.

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