... from the Declaration of Independence:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
1. The first right is a right to life...that is the right to take what actions a person can to sustain and continue his or her life.
2. The second right is a right to liberty...variously defined as the quality or state of being free or having the power of choice.
3. The third right is the pursuit of Happiness...that is the right to attempt to improve your life in any way that does not infringe the rights of your neighbor.
Over many decades, the Government/Industrial Pharma Complex has built a Fortress populated by Kings, Princes and Court lackeys and have made the serfs toil in the fields to bring treasure to the Fortress. While serfs in neighboring countries are taxed half or less, King Jean Pierre requires a king's ransom even from the most penniless peasant.
And who to enforce the King's wishes but the evil Sheriff of Washington. Who cares that that serfs can buy the SAME product from another country at half the price. YOU BUY FROM THE COMPANY STORE OR YOU GO TO JAIL.
Ever heard of NAFTA? That's the North American FREE Trade Agreement. It promotes commerce between the US, Canada and Mexico.
The argument that the FDA is protecting consumers is specious. The Canadian pharmacy standards are as rigid as the US...it simply operates at a fraction of the cost.
That Pharma needs huge profits to fund R&D is also a specious argument. Competition for survival breeds innovation...it doesn't thwart it. Deregulation in industry after industry has proven this and the consumer has benefited.
Bottomline is that Government/Industrial Pharma Complex in American is a morally bankrupt system that will shortly collapse under its own weight...the weight it puts on a stressed economy and the weight it puts on the most basic rights of American citizens.
"We agree to disagree" ... and have already rode this horse to its death .. its over.
Send me an email December 25, 2005 and will finish our discussion.
Both of you must must work in R&D at some Big Pharma and have to be "reasonably" intelligent ... yet "you just don't get it".
I'm truly overwhelmed by your lack of common sense. However, I do look forward to your email in 2005.
PS- Maybe you two should become roommates????
Gimpy says:"My statement indicated India chose to ignor[sic] the requests of the USA, IMF, WTO etc. in the development and testing of nuclear weapons. They will also ignor[sic] and drag out compliance to any requests made by the USA or WTO concerning the 2005 Pharma patent agreements."
Did you even bother to read the reference I provided? Apparently NOT.
Did you bother to do ANY confirmatory research of your own on the topic? Apparently NOT!
There is NO question remaining regarding India's compliance with the WTO demands for intellectual property (patent) rights compliance. India has agreed to comply by 2005. They've agreed. The plans are being executed as we speak. It will happen. It is a fait accompli. A done deal. END OF STORY!
This is not a "perfect world" imaginary scenario, as you'd paint it. This IS the real world. Get it through your thick head.
I didn't know you left.
Nice try at a psychological profile, but as usual, you are just full of generalizations and stereotypes. You did get one point right though. I do have a nice life. I won't stoop to your level and make guesses at what your family or coworkers think of you.
Our basic fundamental difference seems to be that I believe in a company's ability to develop and market its products at a price it sees fit within the framework , laws, and structure of the American economy . You seem to believe that laws are meant to be bent or even broken if that lawbreaking can be of a financial benefit to you. There is no monopoly here, government has seen to that, so you have options. Unfortunately, drug companies foregoing their profits for you is not one of those options. If you are willing to wait until patent expiry, these drugs can be had at a lesser price. That system of business competition was put in to allow for companies to benefit from their discovery and R+D costs , but prevent them from controlling the market eternally. That system works. If you are unhappy with the price of GSK products, you have choices. 1) Don't buy it. 2) Buy a competitors product 3) Wait a few years for the generics 4) Find another healthcare option to pharmaceutical intervention.
I'm sure you have heard all this before and obviously this is not acceptable to you. The same holds true for your attempts to convince me that allowing reimportation and generic competition while within patent protection is not only inevitable, but acceptable. We can agree to disagree or continue to discuss.
You can leave my family out of this however. You may not like my opinions, but try to remain somewhat dignified, if possible.
This is clearly a game.
(a) Your statement-- <Also , are you saying that if we put a stop to illegal generic infringement from India, that they will nuke us?>
I didn't say that. My statement indicated India chose to ignor the requests of the USA, IMF, WTO etc. in the development and testing of nuclear weapons. They will also ignor and drag out compliance to any requests made by the USA or WTO concerning the 2005 Pharma patent agreements.
(b) Your statement-- <I used to think I was engaged in an argument with an uninformed dreamer. Now, I know you are just an idiot. I 'll move on. No time for dopes like you.>
"Ditto" for my opinion of you ... except for the dreamer part. I always thought of you as "bullheaded and narrow minded" idiot. Your right ... I have finished explaining this to you.
You Pro Big Pharma people seem to lack the same qualities ... common sense,compassion and the ability to grasp reality when presented to you in basic black & white and/or living color. You live narrow minded lives focused only on what you want to see and hear. I know you Pro Big Pharma posters have wife & kids that obey every request made of them. Your household is perfect, you attend church every Sunday, don't drink or cuss or smoke. You tithe to absolve yourself of sin and buy your way into heaven. The company office waits anxiously for your daily opinion of business problems and conditions. You live in a Pro Big Pharma perfect world.
My world isn't perfect. Many people don't obey the laws designed to protect all Americans. In my world many Americans actually lead substandard lives because of individual, corporate and political greed.
My world is "the real world".
Good luck and "have a nice life".
So we should allow foreign countries to violate our patent laws and export their product to the US at the expense of our own industries, to appease the world's perception that we are bullies?
Forget population, when India and China are accounting for developing 40% of the worlds new medicines, perhaps I will take notice. Population is irrelevant. Wake up, we lead the world in much more than military. Sorry if it offends you that I can recognize that. You will never convince me that it is better in the long run for us to allow some generic Indian pharmaceutical firms to export at will, above the law, at the expense of our own pharmaceutical industry. I am not looking for the world to rally around us in this issue, I'm looking for the US to enforce its own laws and protect its own interests.
How does saying that US will not let India violate their laws constitute an indictment of Indian doctors , lawyers, etc.? Also, are you saying that if we put a stop to illegal generic infringement from India, that they will nuke us?
I used to think I was engaged in an argument with an uninformed dreamer. Now, I know you are just an idiot. I 'll move on. No time for dopes like you.
<<Countries like India will not strongarm the US govt., big Pharma, and the WTO. Any "normal" person can see that.>>
Ah, good, old fashioned, American hubris...it's of the very best quality.
The US makes up 4.5% of the world population. India and China make up 40%. China is rapidly becoming the world leader in manufacturing. We all know India's becoming a major player in drugs, not just in manufacturing but development too. Highest number per capita of PhDs in a major city...Seoul, So. Korea.
Our real lead in the world? Clear dominance in military power...at the cost of 20-25% of the national budget. Too bad, in the old days when you conquered a country you got its riches. Now conquest is a net drain to the national treasury. Look at what happened to Russia...too many guns and not enough butter.
Sanctions on the whole seem to be stupid. They seldom stem the flow of goods and the burden of sanctions falls on the middle and lower classes, does not stimulate change in the ruling structure and...breeds a longstanding hatred for the sanctioning body.
America is perceived as a bully more now than ever before. If you think the world will rally around the US to promote its companies welfare you are deluded.
Stealing one of your tactics-
(a) Your statement-- <Countries like India will not strongarm the US govt., big Pharma, and the WTO.>
India isn't a land of ass backwards yes people as your message seems to indicate. The people I'm fimiliar with own their own business, lawyers, engineers (lots) or doctors. I'm proud to call many my friend. All bright, hard working people and very loyal to their family.
Say, I believe India has nuclear capabilities ... a bomb, the big one, the big "KA-BOOM". Yes, they listen to everything the USA, WTO and IMF tells them ... but do they do it ... "no".
Also, China loves our patent laws ...... "WRONG"!!! (attempt at paradoxical joke)
I wish my world was perfect like yours ... but it isn't.
What planet do you live on???
<I believe my statement (b) clearly indicated intentional procrastination on the part of Iraq. Now applying this same scenario to WTO 2005 sanctions relating to India manufactured generic pharmaceuticals and most "normal" people would get the picture. However, you try to sidestep the issues ... don't like losing do you? Stay on task, be honest and face disappointment like a man/woman.>
So are you suggesting that if India procrastinates, the WTO will not sanction violators? Apparently, you do not get the picture. Countries like India will not strongarm the US govt., big Pharma, and the WTO. Any "normal" person can see that. They will fall in line or pay through sanctioning. I'm sure falling in line is the path they will choose. I am sidestepping nothing and am certainly not losing to you in this argument. I don't need to face disappointment. Your fairy tale world of cheap knockoffs pouring in to the US and driving US pharma companies to sell at cost is a pipe dream. Patent protection of intellectual property is the driving factor to successful R+D based industry. This is an area of zero compromise. In the end, you will understand. Right now, it is clear you do not.