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  • twelve_more_years twelve_more_years Mar 12, 2004 11:54 AM Flag

    OT- End of Civilization - Any Suggeston

    on how to cope? The end of the Oil-based/Industrial Revolution?

    If it comes to pass, it sounds like those of us 40 and up will likely see the brunt of it before we die at 76 and 1/2 years of age. Our children and grand children will have to deal with the transition of civilization to an early 20th century - late 19th century standard of living (IMH and relatively uniformed O).

    The Party's Over: Oil, War and the Fate of Industrial Societies

    SYNOPSIS (1/3rd the way down the page):

    When Mike Bowlin, Chairman of ARCO, said in 1999 that "We've embarked on the beginning of the last days of the age of oil," he was voicing a truth that many others in the petroleum industry knew but dared not utter. Over the past few years, evidence has mounted that global oil production is nearing its historic peak.



    Book Review Desk

    But Goodstein, a physicist, vice provost of the California Institute of Technology and an advocate of nuclear power, is no muddled idealist. And his argument is based on the immutable laws of physics.

    The age of oil is ending, he says. The supply will soon begin to decline, precipitating a global crisis.

    (NYT article, sign up for free)

    Hubbert's Peak : The Impending World Oil Shortage

    It's tempting to dismiss Deffeyes as just another of the doomsayers who have been predicting, almost since oil was discovered, that we are running out of it. But Deffeyes makes a persuasive case that this time it's for real.

    In Hubbert's Peak, Deffeyes writes with good humor about the oil business, but he delivers a sobering message: the 100-year petroleum era is nearly over. Global oil production will peak sometime between 2004 and 2008, and the world's production of crude oil "will fall, never to rise again." If Deffeyes is right--and if nothing is done to reduce the increasing global thirst for oil--energy prices will soar and economies will be plunged into recession as they desperately search for alternatives.

    The Collapse of Complex Societies

    Political disintegration is a persistent feature of world history. The Collapse of Complex Societies, though written by an archaeologist, will therefore strike a chord throughout the social sciences.

    Environment, Scarcity, and Violence.

    Book Description
    The Earth's human population is expected to pass eight billion by the year 2025, while rapid growth in the global economy will spur ever increasing demands for natural resources. The world will consequently face growing scarcities of such vital renewable resources as cropland, fresh water, and forests.

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    • "It's not the parts of the Bible that I don't understand that bother me. It's the parts that I do understand". Mark Twain

    • One of the most cherished, but false, beliefs of the day late & dollar short crowd. The "Creator" referenced in the Declaration of Independence was a "Deist," not Christian, Creator.

    • "Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath?" --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.XVIII, 1782. ME 2:227

      But Thomas Jefferson also penned what he termed a "wee little book" titled "The Philosophy of Jesus Christ." He described it as "a paradigm of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order... In extracting the pure principles which he taught, we should have to strip off the artificial vestments in which they have been muffled by priests, who have travestied them into various forms as instruments of riches and power for themselves."

      Jefferson had written in 1819, "I never go to bed without an hour or half an hour's reading of something moral, whereon to ruminate in the intervals of sleep" -- to which Randall adds, "The book oftenest chosen . . . was a collection of extracts from the Bible." Henry Wilder Foote, "Introduction," The Jefferson Bible, 23

      He was passionately devoted to the gospel of Jesus, which stirred him to the depths of his being and was the most powerful motive force in his life. Donald S. Harrington, "Foreword," The Jefferson Bible, 11

      The practice of morality being necessary for the well-being of society, He has taken care to impress its precepts so indelibly on our hearts that they shall not be effaced by the subtleties of our brain. We all agree in the obligation of the moral precepts of Jesus, and nowhere will they be found delivered in greater purity than in his discourses. � TJ to James Fishback, Sept 27, 1809, Bergh 12:315. (1809.)

      [I]t is one of the minor ironies of history that such slanders should have been so generally and so long believed about the man whose knowledge of and admiration for the teachings of Jesus have never been equaled by any other President. Henry Wilder Foote, "Introduction," The Jefferson Bible, 18

      It was not, however, to be understood that instruction in religious opinion and duties was meant to be precluded by the public authorities as indifferent to the interests of society. On the contrary, the relations which exist between man and his Maker and the duties resulting from those relations are the most interesting and important to every human being and the most incumbent on his study and investigation. -- TJ, Report to the Visitors [school boards] Oct 7, 1822



    • Sherwick:


      Welcome to reality:

      THOMAS JEFFERSON, (1743-1826) American president, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat. Deist, avid separationist:

      "Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."

      "I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."

      "Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies."
      [letter to John Adams, August 15, 1820]

      "Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined, and imprisoned, yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites." [Notes on Virginia]

      "History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes" [Letter to von Humboldt, 1813].

      "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." [Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823]

      "In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own" [Letter to H. Spafford, 1814].

      JAMES MADISON, (1751-1836) American president and political theorist. Popularly known as the "Father of the Constitution." More than any other framer he is responsible for the content and form of the First Amendment:

      "During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution."

      "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." [April 1, 1774]

      JOHN ADAMS 1735-1826, 2d President of the United States:
      "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it." [ in a letter to Thomas Jefferson]

      "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

      "But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed."

    • Humanist n. a person having a strong interest in or concern for human welfare, values and dignity."


    • How about 'Allah Damn it'? Or does 'God Damn it' have some special significance to you?

    • >>>>1. Don't recall ever requiring "extensive documentation"<<<<<

      Convenient memory.

      >>>>>>Did challenge you on "Satan," but you characteristically punted.<<<<<

      I challenged you on proof of "existance", but you characteristically punted.

      >>>>2. As far as DD, I'm a DEconverted Christian. I had twelve years of "Christian" education and I've done extensive study on the roots of your beliefs.<<<<<<

      You are therefore 'without excuse'.

      >>>>>>You don't know my position but only parrot something akin to the Pat Robertson line.<<<<<<<

      Absolutists do tend to be consistent in their beliefs.

      >>>>>3. Humanists, by definition, have "double standards?" How childishly off the mark!<<<<<

      I believe that I said that humanists have relative standards.

      >>>>>>4. A "humane humanist system?"<<<<<<<

      Sorry about the oxymoron.


    • God damned right Sulith!


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