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CIFC Corp. Message Board

  • roby_ace_2000 roby_ace_2000 May 25, 2012 2:14 PM Flag

    To all the faithful

    Looks like we are finally getting some respect. Hope it continues.

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    • Why am I out? Because I know how to read financial statements and I don't like what I'm seeing. I believe I should invest elsewhere. Good luck to you and all.

    • The $415 million in debt is in the VIE's and is not part of the CIFC balance statement. There is a reinvestment period built into each CLO and there were 415 million dollars of additional debt issued, which I assume is mostly but not all of the new CLO issued the first quarter. As to the share issuance--DFR at various quarters, and I can't explain why has used a different share count to figure their GAAP and FFO per share. The 24 million share count is if all shares were converted from Bounty and officers and directors. That number has been consistent from day one of the merger give or take a few hundred thousand. They also had positive cash flow, not negative,on both a GAAP and FFO (or whatever term they used) of 8 cents and 13 cents respectively. As a further note I was disappointed in the first quarter earnings but very happy with the $10,000,00 stock buyback plan. This should squeeze the substantial short position and keep a price floor above $6.00. Until they show they can issue more CLO's I am not a net buyer above $7.00. I own and control alot of shares below $5.00 cost, and am looking for $10.00 to start selling. Thank you for your concerns about the companies financials, but if your out WHY?

    • OK, one more time but its not an intellegent conversation when you accuse me of lying.

      On page 8 (page 9 of the pdf) of the May 15 10Q there's a statement of cash flow. If you look at 4th from last line on the bottom of page 9 you'll see "Proceeds for issuance of long term debt" of 414,976. If you scroll down to the first line on page 10 you'll see the net increase in cash of 60,008, then the cash at beginning of period and cash at end of the period. The later shows up on the balance sheet. The debt that was issued has to be included in the consolidated balance sheet because it doesn't show up on the CIFC portion of the balance sheet. The reason there is only 60 M change in cash when there was 415 M in debt issued is because there were losses in operations and investing. You'll see this if you scroll up page 9 and read the entire statement of cash flow.

      I never said that there weren't 9 M shares issued year over year. What I said was that there were 3 M shares issued in the first quarter and I didn't know why. You can see this on income statement (page 6) of the 10Q. You'll have to compare it with the YE statement. I remember when they merged that the shares increased. I didn't see any announcement in the first quarter. But now I see where they have actually been 10 announcements in the second quarter where people have been given shares. It will be interesting to see what the next quarter's statement shows.

      I don't own the company any longer. I decided to sell 3 months ago after the YE statement when I saw their new business model was burning through money at the rate of 10 M a quarter and I didn't like what they were paying themselves. I put in a limit order because the volume is so small and it didn't get hit until the morning after they came out with this quarter's earnings. When the price kept going up I thought I may have made a mistake and so I asked the board to explain things to me.

      I'm no longer a buyer because there are a lot of things that don't make sense to me.

    • Tell me where you see the additional debt? Show me where there isn't 9 million more shares different in first quarters of 2011 vs. 2012. You haven't read the 10Q have you. You might have been a shareholder since 2008 and I'm willing to have an intelligent conversation with you but one of us is not looking at their reported balance sheet. If you feel things aren't right here why do you still own the stock?? It'll probably never see 2008 prices again and all it is right now is a $7.00 stock or 70 cents pre 10 for 1 reverse split!

    • I've owned DFR since 2008 and I told you I have read the SEC filings. 3 million more shares were outstanding after the first quarter, 7 million fully diluted shares. And there is 415 million of extra debt.

      I may be wrong but it seems that something is not quite right. However it appears that I'm wasting my time trying to learn anything from this board. My appologies for wasting the boards' time.

      Good luck.

    • I assume you haven't followed DFR very long. Between the 1st quarter 2011 and 1st quarter 2012 there were an additional 9 million shares issued! These were issued as consideration for the mergers with Bounty and CIFC. There were also some additional stock issued as compensation to officers and directors. Please if your interested read the 8K and 10Q for the first quarter 2012. They're all on the website.

    • And the 3 million shares?

    • the 60 million in cash was not the result of 415 million of debt issuance. You need to move on to another company because you surely do not understand this one!

    • I have been to the company website and read the statements. That's how I learned that the 60 M in cash was the result of the issuance of 415 M in debt that covered payment of their debt, losses of 33 M in operations, and 1osses of 177 M in investing. And that the debt ended up in the VIE portion of the blance sheet but the cash ended up with CIFC.

      It how I also know that the number of shares outstanding are now 20,426,118 when it was 17,892,184 on the annual report.

      What I don't know is how many more "assets" they can sell that are not reported on the CIFC portion of the balance sheet. You need a doctorate to read thier fillings.

    • The VIE's are a GAAP and IRS accounting vechile. It cosolidates their CLO's and CDO'S. They have some ownership interest in all of these. But their real income is from the management fees. If you would read their 8K or 10K or 10Q you would understand all this. You can access this on their web site. If I knew how to do links I would make it easy. Put CIFC Corp in Google go to the website and then go to investor relations.

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CIFC
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