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Nokia Corporation Message Board

  • learning_wheel learning_wheel Jan 27, 2013 8:05 PM Flag

    Nokia is Dangerous Stock. Please Be Careful!

    Read article today in Bloomberg. Bond risk is bad. Credit ratings worried about Nokia long term.

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    • As long as you don't 100% max out your margin then you will be Fine! Just make sure you got $$$ to cover the Margin if CALL so that you don't miss out on opportunity for the rise in pps. Dangerous- I don't think so, Just Relax and Patience is the key for success in NOKIA. We got a strong Hand, hold-em!...don't be push going all the way to the RIVER!

    • Forget what bloomberg tells you.why can't you look up the information yourself rather than relying someone else interpret and opinioned for you? Yes,Nokia is burning Cash but the fact remains their balance sheet got stronger by 800 Million with Grosh cash balance of almost 14 Billion and Net cash balance of Almost 5 Billion Euro.

      Coming back to Nokia credit rating,their credit rating is almost Junk at this time but fear has fallen more than 500 basin points compared to last July.Infact,right now,10 year rate is around 6% and 20 years is less than 5% which is compared to 80% of companies out there.Pretty good for the last 4 months which tells me fear of BK has fallen to Zero.

      yes,Its Bloomberg but business News channels are notorious for using past data and future forcasts as they see fit based on their underlying interest.You want to do your own research rather than relying on outside channels only.Always double check information because todays media is not your dad's media or grandpas.The world has shifted from 5 years ago when it comes to news and information these days.

      Someone can double check me and let me know if I'm correct with the Nokia bonds improving over the past 3 months.Very soon we will see bond upgrades to reflect improving balance sheet.

      Sentiment: Strong Buy

    • Come on! The ratings agencies are a joke! They are behind the eight ball again, here, as always. The real story is the discount to par that the bonds are selling out. They have rallied a lot in the last few months which his very telling. Ignore the ratings agencies. Pay attention to the actual price of the bonds. This article was another BS hit piece by Bloomberg.

      Sentiment: Strong Buy

    • why don't you short NOK. I am buying more NOK and HOLD

      Sentiment: Strong Buy

    • worst_investor_of_all_time worst_investor_of_all_time Jan 27, 2013 9:16 PM Flag

      This is our very own concordchicken/nusaiba/udufus/shortnokia, etc.

      Same bum same horrible intellect. Same phony trades.

      I'm all in!

      Sentiment: Strong Buy

    • Abigail Moses who wrote this article is a very good reporter but this isn't a very good article. What it is is a dated look in the rear view mirror from credit rating agencies that have no ability to #$%$ the future. No doubt Nokia came close to the brink, we all know that. But thngs have materially improved.

      This turnaround has been very well executed but expensive. They are painfully difficult. But what a credit agency will never have a feel for is how are they positioned for the future - especially Nokia's porducts. The article mentioned that Nokia bonds have rallied. That's the market telling the rating agencies that they have miss-classed the risk.

      I worked with rating agencies on Wall Street for years. They will still have Nokia debt sub investment grade when they have obviously succeeded. The liquidity risk for Nokia is extremely minimal now, compared with the past. The cut to the dividend should have been done a year ago as the article said, but now it just adds more liquidity to the nearly billion more cash they added this quarter.

      Rating agencies don't want to admit yet that Nokia is ok. But the market will price the debt the way it sees the risk and right now it's saying the debt ratings are way too low.

      • 1 Reply to thefretgenie
      • Okay. I like your post. You talk about the article. Not me.

        I know what you say about bonds rallying. It says Nokia wont go BK. I agree. But for stock to move higher, Nokia has to make a lot of money. Nokia needs sell many smartphones especially Lumia. Nothing in Q4 said that. Asha feature phones were great. But Lumia not.

        I know about supply story. And about only 2 months q4. But the q1 prediction isn't good either. And can't say Elop is giving cautious guidance. Not certain either. So it's a gamble. So it's dangerous.

        That's what I'm saying. Only thing I'm saying. It's dangerous stock because turnaround is not sure yet. You say things have materially improved. But have they? If not for NSN, Nokia lost more money. The credit agencies are worried about that in Q1. NSN will not have the same numbers Q1. And Nokia didn't say smart phones would be super.

        From the article:

        "Nokia benefited from its Nokia Siemens Networks joint venture to return to profit. Nokia’s cash flow from operating activities was 563 million euros in the fourth quarter of 2012, down from 634 million euros a year before, and including a 740 million euro contribution from the joint venture."

        That's a fact. And a big problem. Because Q4 is the best one of year. Q1 wont be so strong.

        So bond risk will rise again if Nokia burns more cash. The story is not finished. So still dangerous.

        But thank you super smart answer. I enjoy reading.

        Can't we just talk about Nokia? Not about people posting. I think some people here are bad people for calling other people names.

    • worst_investor_of_all_time worst_investor_of_all_time Jan 27, 2013 9:15 PM Flag


      Sentiment: Strong Buy

    • Learning!!! This article for AAPL board.Because investors run away from AAPL, to NOK....
      p.s. RELAX

      Sentiment: Strong Buy

    • Thanks. Good information. Just because it doesn't jive with the board's consensus doesn't make it false. If what this board thought mattered a damn this stock would be $5.50 right this minute. Obviously that isn't the case.

      • 1 Reply to sxr71
      • Thanks. bro. I'm glad somebody's listening.

        I read some messages here. People talk bad about Seeking Alfa and Motley Fool. Okay. I understand. But this is freakin Bloomberg, man! What? Now they going to say Bloomberg is short Nokia or Bloomberg is Apple fanboys? Get real!

        I read messages here talking bad about Jim Cramer. But these people are much worse. At least Cramer doesn't insult. Fart talker? I've never heard that before.

        From the article: "Excluding NSN, Nokia continued to burn cash in the fourth quarter, at a rate which is likely to increase in Q1,” SocGen’s Jaeger said.

        It's true. Read the Earnings Report. If the company goes back to burning cash in Q1, its more problems for their credit rating. That's why they cut dividend.

        Only crazy people like the ones here think its good for company to cut dividend. They think that cut dividend says the company is strong. Crazy.

        Whatever. Looks like giving good info here on Yahoo is a waste of time. Nobody want to listen.

    • I think we have a new paid basher on the boards! Welcome! I think you'll find little patience here for your nonsense. But, if you want to waste your time trying to convince people that black is white, up is down, and Nokia is DANGEROUS, feel free.

      You'll be on my ignore list soon enough.

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