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Nokia Corporation Message Board

  • rt4508 Feb 1, 2013 6:24 PM Flag

    India tax head fake?

    I think I was faked out of my socks yesterday. I sold my NOK shares at $3.95 at a loss at the opening on 1/31. I first learned about the amount of the tax on this message board and then confirmed by locating the article in the 1/31/12 issue of the Economic Times (see below for text). I know the final amount owing will be negotiated down, but the stated claim is 3,000 crore for the tax liability and 10,000 crore for transfer pricing, totaling well over $2B USD! If the amount of the India tax claim is true, it could provide serious downward pressure on NOK until a final much lower settlement is reached.

    When I didn't see any U.S. media on the amount of the India tax I began to suspect that it may have been a false story causing me and others to dump our shares yesterday.

    I know the stock is in a fairly narrow range the last couple of days (around $3.85-$4.05) and I could have gotten back in at close to my sale price, but I couldn't because I need to wait 30 days under the IRS wash sale rule, or else risk having my hands tied on the new stock.

    One of the other posts on this board suggested that the anonymous Indian tax official may have been bribed by a short to disclose the amount, or even worse, to fabricate such a high amount. If this is true, the SEC should open an inquiry.

    Another post on this topic said they got a letter directly from Nokia basically saying not to worry and that everything is under control. I am skeptical about whether such a letter actually exists because public companies do not answer individual shareholder questions privately on matters that are material non-public information. See SEC Reg FD.

    I love this company, have three Lumia 920's in my family, including my own, talk to everyone I see about how great the phone is, and check in regularly with my ATT store to see how sales are going. I really want to believe. But almost every time I turn around and buy back into this stock, I get crushed.

    Does anyone have any insight into whether the claimed amount of the tax disclosed in yesterday's India papers and Economic Times is accurate?

    Here is the Economic Times blurb:

    CHENNAI: The Income tax (I-T) department probing the Nokia tax-evasion case has, in an interim report, said the company should pay Rs 13,000 crore for tax and transfer-pricing violations.

    A senior Income-tax official, who requested anonymity, told ET, "We have submitted a 150-page interim report to our office in Delhi," he noted. "Nokia will have to pay Rs 13,000 crore before March 31." Of the Rs 13,000 crore, Rs 3,000 crore is for tax violations and Rs 10,000 crore for transfer pricing issues, the source said. Over the past few weeks, officials from Nokia and audit firm Price Water and Company, the Indian arm of Pricewaterhouse-Coopers, were being questioned in Chennai.

    Sentiment: Buy

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    • RT, I love people like you, someone needs to lose money so other can make a lot of money. Why in the world would you even pay attention on the bs posted on this board, you need to do your own DD and than make a smart decision whether to sell or buy. The tax issue will take a long time to resolve and it will not be anywhere close to what was posted by BB posters. There is a good chance NOK stock will be around $4.00 dollars in next 30 days and you can re-enter your postion, however you need to hold it at least 12 months in order to make a nice return. Good luck to you and please do not give up, life is good and the ups and downs of the stock is due to manipulation by the shorts and day traders.

      Sentiment: Strong Buy

    • The downward pressure due to this tax bill is done with. The sell off that happened 2 days ago was for any who didn't like that risk to get out. So the stock now has the $2.5 billion built into the current pps. That said, any news about a lower than $2.5 billion settlement or maybe this whole thing is a shakedown then the pps would rally accordingly.

      Sentiment: Strong Buy

    • jdlowvoltage000 Feb 1, 2013 8:18 PM Flag

      I used yo get so mad at the enormous problem we as Nokia investors face with fake media,false claims,analysts downgraded, market manipulation.. but now I look to the future and root for the bad press because I'm long on the stock them all as opportunity to buy more stocks..just keep holding them and don't play into the games....winning... remember... trade on merit..not media and only sell at 120pps atleast..after the dethrone of Snapple

      Sentiment: Strong Buy

    • You are asking a legitimate question and I don't know why you get 4 thumbs down. These things happen not only to you, but to a lot of people who come in and go out of nok. I have been here a long time to notice it. I started buying before elop took over and I have so far averaged on 30k shares at 5.44. I will tell you why I am still here, cause of nok's brilliant engineers. I don't care for nok's management. the previous one overuled the engineers with their smartphone lead resulting in apple becoming the smartphone king, the reason why apple pays nok 10.75 for each phone it sells. The current one, imo is no better. he took over at 11.75 and look where we are and the turds on this board are singing his praise when they should sing the praise of the nok studious and inventive engineers. look how many brands of lumias and ashas have they produced within a matter of a year. Of course to the turds, it is elop who, imo is dropping it on the marketing side with not enough lumias to sell and no lumia ads to show off that much of this beautiful phones. I myself own lumia 920. Being an engineer myself with my own patent which I prepared and prosecuted on my own, you can see why I believe in nok's brilliant engineers. My suggestion to you is unless this ceo fires people like mr. Ahitisari ( the main honcho designer at NOK) stay put and you will make money. I have every confidence in nok's brightest ASSET, its engineers to make good bucks in the end in nok. Now, don't be scared, buy back in thirty days or so or whenever you feel comfortable and this time hold on to your shares unless you really need the money. I do not need mine for at least another 5 years and I know by then I will have made a ton of money. To the turds on this board, one can like a co for the people who make the co work by inventing, designing and producing the beautiful products and dislike the ceo, cause the ceo is nothing but a stupid figurehead at nok. Marketing at nok needs to take courses from samsung, imo, including the stupid CEO.

      • 2 Replies to luv_n_peace_4ever
      • What an idiot. Elop is hardly a figurehead. All the venom you spew his way confirms you don't perceive him as a figurehead. I've said it before. People like you don't deserve to benefit from the complete turnaround in this company. man... just go away.

        For others, you really would do well to put this guy on ignore. Read enough of his posts and you will see exactly where I am coming from.

      • I think you are completely wrong on Elop. True, the share price, earnings etc have plummeted. But a kind of revolution has taken place. Nokia now have the best smartphones on the planet and an irreplaceable part of that is the Microsoft operating system. It is entirely down to Elop that this - the move to windows - has happened. I don't disagree with you about the Nokia engineers. They are great! They are what enable Nokia to make Windows phones that are head and shoulders above other Windows phones and they give a guarantee that Nokia will stay ahead of the whole smartphone pack over the next few years because of their amazing creations - not just hardware but software too. But to get back to the point, I think that if Elop hadn't done what he did, we would not be much better off than Rimm now. We'd be an also ran trying and failing to keep up with the crowd. As it happens, we are racing faster than the rest of the crowd and it looks like we are going to catch up pretty quickly. I think you could see things happening this quarter that make everyone sit up and take notice.

    • I, in fact, asked Nokia the same question, and received the same response as another poster. I asked Nokia through their "Financial" section (forget the exact page). It was sent from James Etheridge, Nokia Corporate Communications--from his direct email. His email address would be blocked by Yahoo, if I posted here.

      "Thanks for writing in. I appreciate your concern.

      To update you on the situation, we yesterday issued a statement, locally in India, as follows:

      “Nokia is fully cooperating with the Indian Tax authorities. We are duly responding to all queries raised by them and extending our full support in completing the investigation. Nokia’s commitment to being a good corporate citizen is firm and unwavering. We always observe applicable laws and rulings in the countries where we operate. Since we arrived in India 17 years ago, we have honored all local laws and paid all taxes legally due. We look forward to resolving this issue quickly and fairly with the support of the Indian government.”

      It is worth keeping in mind that as of yet, we have not received any formal claims or formal notice from the authorities, nor has a single official gone on the record publicly in the media with any specific claims (although there have been plenty of “anonymous sources” speaking to media and spreading false rumors). When it is appropriate to take further steps in our communication, I can assure that we will do so and are ready to do so.

      For now, however, I can only emphasize that we have paid all taxes legally due. This is absolutely the case and therefore we look forward to resolving this matter swiftly.

      Best regards,
      James Etheridge
      Nokia Corporate Communications

    • Were you hunting for bad news to convince yourself to sell? Honestly, if I don't get any InPlay emails from e-trade or official NOK corp. news releases, it's just noise. If you believe in the product and the company, then invest and don't worry about the noise. They tried that India tax #$%$ couple weeks before earnings also. I bought more on the dip as I have been since Oct. Again, because I continue to believe in the product and the company. Sorry you got taken out on false information.

      Nokia may very well have some tax issues in India. Doubt it's anything malicious on NOKs part. Big companies that employ thousands can usually negotiate deals on taxes anyhow.
      Just my two cents.

      Sentiment: Strong Buy

5.70+0.100(+1.79%)May 31 4:03 PMEDT