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Dish Network Corp. Message Board

  • mplecas7 mplecas7 Oct 29, 2013 2:33 PM Flag

    Freedompop gives some insight as to feasibility of Dish as a wireless service provider

    Some on this board argue that Dish has no chance of success in first even developing the capacity to provide wireless service and second to attract any consumers to use their service if it's ever developed.
    Well Freedompop goes a long way in dispelling those theories, as they have managed to do just that with far less resources than Dish.
    Freedompop owns no spectrum or anything related to the deployment of a wireless service, they are rather liscensing the use of Sprint's network for their offerings, yes the same Sprint that posters claim would never work with Dish even though they are fine with facilitating the entrance of a completely new competitor. Seems that money trumps all else.
    Then there is the issue of devices, posters claim that Dish would not be able to get any devices to include a chip allowing them to receive service from Dish, yet Freedompop has managed to get some, though not many, but continues to expand upon available devices. They've managed this dispite having no other relationship with device manufacturers nor having an already existent customer base such as Dish's 11+ million subs. Dish also carries much more weight with device manufacturers do to their position as the third largest pay tv provider, thus having appeal relating to various creative methods of partnerships such as that done between Direct TV and Samsung in which they developed the capability to use Samsung Smart TV's in the way that Dish's Joeey's are used to serve in place of additional set top boxes for each tv.
    Addittionaly we have Dish's relationship with Apple which allows subs to utilize the Ipad to further enhance the tv everywhere concept, allowing for the storing of content from one's program package on the Ipad for viewing offline. We can also look to the article discussing the recent partnership between Dish and I believe Southwest Airlines in which passengers are provided an IPad 2 to enjoy Dish content during their flight.

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    • good discussions thank you all

    • Keep in mind Charlie is not going to enter the wireless world from scratch. He will enter big time by acquiring one or more successful wireless companies. I have bet my dollar he will look very seriously at TMUS and NTLS. These two and he is in wireless big time. He might even attempt the take over of one of the major wireless companies.

    • FreedomPop provides few insights into DISH's rollout of networks, subscriber gain possibilities or the overall business model because these companies are world's apart in almost every aspect of their business. The degree and way they capitalize their business is almost entirely different. The degree of upfront investment DISH needs to establish metro to nationwide networks compared to using Sprint or any other operators networks as a wholesale, pay-for-use incremental cash-flow model is the difference between night and day.

      FreedomPop has, as far as I know, not disclosed the number of subscribers or revenue. MVNO's as a group make up a relatively small part of the overall market... 12%-14%. And that includes all the well known MVNO's including those held captive by Sprint and other operators. Its thought that FP has 1-200,000 subs... almost irrelevant if not for the unusually and potentially disruptive long-term business model. Because the major operators are in control of spectrum and networks, if this or other entrants rise up to threaten their core business, they can copy them at their own gain or otherwise compete in low cost, foot-in-the-door service plans... much as Sprint announced last week with a free/limited plan for students.

      DISH can build a network based on the growing capabilities of LTE-Advanced including SONs, self-organized networks, and multiple-channel aggregation. A new generation of chips announced by Qualcomm allows building of true 'World Phone" devices that can be designed and built to operate across 40 bands of spectrum using the same chipsets and board-level designs with needed antenna and RF support built in.

      What this capability results in is that D can use their installation crews and mode of customer installation to build a network at lower cost than conventional macrocell or HetNet networks. However, pieces of the network puzzle must be solved: while subscriber rooftops can serve as smallcell sites at much lower cost, cont...

      • 1 Reply to teamrep
      • a backhaul and macro-mini cell network will be required to feed the larger number of local small cells. This problem confronts all operators, however, the incumbents have already spent billions of dollars and years deploying backhaul grids using fiber optic, microwave, and, in some cases cable, DSL, and popular Wi-Fi. DISH will somehow need to duplicate or partner to gain access to similar broadband connectivity.. or the home rooftop network deployment advantage disappears.

    • First. Lets drop the strawman arguments. Never said Dish could never get a deal with Sprint or any other carrier. I said they would be very expensive. Sprint has already said they are willing to work with Dish, but Dish is not going to get a competitive deal like you think. LS made a 15 billion dollar deal with credit. Sprint nor ATT require credits, and neither are hurting for capital or spectrum the way Sprint was previously. This means Dish is likely going to have to pay more than LS did. I also never said Dish could never get a manufacturer to work with them. I said that Att/Sprint/Tmobile/Vz would never subsidize a device with Dish's bands. I even agreed with you that it would be possible for cellular tablets to come with Dish's spectrum, since carriers have no say in devices sold without subsidy.

      FreedomPOP is an MVNO. As you said they lease capacity from sprint. They do not have any customers, but they do have scale, because they can piggy back on Sprint, which is what they do. If you look at their current devices, they match up with devices Sprint or Clearwire( their previous partner) already use. Dish has 11 million TV customers, who probably already have carriers for mobile phones and service with other ISPs.

      Xfinity by comcast just released their own anywhere tv app and it lets you view programs offline. Does this mean they have a relationship with apple. Or maybe, they have no relationship with apple and that is something anyone can offer.

      Southwest partnered with Dish to provide free TV on their wifi flights(keyword Wifi). They probably use iPads to replace the pilots manual, and got a better deal buying more to provide for their customers. They could have easily gotten Android tablets. Dish's spectrum has no relation with wifi nor does it show a relation with Apple using wifi tablets.

    • Bottom line is that if Freedompop has managed to gain and continue to grow compatible devices despite having zero negotiating leverage other than the new service offering itself, and are able to offer this service without possessing a single asset related to the deployment of that service by reaching an agreement with Sprint to provide the network for Freedompop's service, and holding nothing of additional value or appeal to consumers to enhance or differenciate their offering other than the structure of the offering itself which provides consumers with the ability to receive a minimal service for free consisting of 200 min talk, some text, and 500mb of data then charges substantially more for additional data than others, apparently $20 per additional GB of data opposed to $10.
      So Freedompop has deployed a new service operating solely on Sprint's network without any major advantages over the competition other than their pricing structure which allows the capability to receive voice, text, and data services all for free for the initial minimal amounts, and with this they are seeing successful subscriber growth.
      Now does it really sound reasonable that this company has managed to be successful and that Sprint has been willing to contract with them so that a completely new competitor may enter the market and take away from their potential customers, fully made possible by Sprint, the same company that some posters insist would never work with Dish in their goal of deploying a wirless network?

      • 2 Replies to mplecas7
      • I already responded to the Straw man argument above, so I do not believe I need to reiterate.

        Sprint loves MVNOs. they lease extra capacity. They require no extra work and in many cases they are more portable than consumers, because they can charge them on a pay per use. Also anyone can be an MVNO. you, if you were inclined, could become your own MVNO. If Dish wanted to be an MVNO, they could easily do so, but they want their own network, which is a completely different beast.

        To give and example i believe anyone could understand. An MVNO is like someone renting your basement. It requires you to do very little extra work. When you manage your own home(network), you are also managing theirs. Dish does not want to rent your basement. They want you to build them a house(network) in your backyard(towers) for them to use. You have to build and take care of it, which is extra work.

      • Finally, as to the assertion that there would be no consumer interest in Dish's service if it did manage to deploy. Well if Freedompop is strongly gaining traction through the sole enticement of a small amount of free voice,text,and data then how much greater appeal would the ability for Dish subs to enjoy access to their full range of programming from their plan with or without wifi access and streamed in high quality and uninterrupted fashion. Giving the customers a first ever tv everywhere experience that actually realizes the full vision of such an offering, finally delivering on the concept that sounds so wonderful.
        Then add to that the long awaited fulfillment of Ultraviolet's wonderfully designed concept, finally delivering the fabulous experience that was envisioned for that platform yet has remained far from a reality thus explaining the very slow movement towards digital platform adaption as it's true functionality is far from that which is described as the benefits of such a format.
        Hence the return of Blockbuster to the position of King of home video, this time in the digital era, providing what no one else can. Smooth, uninterrupted viewing in the highest possible quality and doing so in a manner which makes mobile viewing other than over wifi a true option.

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