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Altria Group Inc. Message Board

  • pumpdy_dumpy12 pumpdy_dumpy12 Feb 1, 2014 8:52 PM Flag

    Hmmn,should I retire now (age 61) with net worth of $1.1 mill?

    It's a conundrum. Your thoughts?

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    • aaronboren Feb 5, 2014 7:10 AM Flag

      You could retire on 1.1 million in 1970. In 2014 you're going to need about 2.5 million in income generating investments. Of course if you can live on 25k it might work.

    • Wow! Since this is supposed to be a board devoted to Altria stock, I generally would not respond to this. However, the question and a lot of the answers thus far are actually civilized and not the prevalent political nonsense, so I think I'll dip my oar in the water - on the assumption that the question is sincere.

      First, although you did not ask this, several poster have correctly noted that you should have a plan other than just quitting your job. I have known many who retired without such a plan. Some ended up taking another job out of boredom. Some were unfortunately reduced to worse conditions by other physical or emotional problems.

      Second, the financial answer depends on two factors:
      (1) How much do you need to live on? Rules of thumb that you can read about, and may already have seen, are useless. They cannot possibly factor in things like what post-retirement income (pensions, social programs) you have outside your investments. They cannot effectively factor in what you want your lifestyle to be (hide away in a country cabin, travel around the world). So, that should be the first thing you determine. What (in today's dollars) do you expect your annual expenses to be that must come from your investments as opposed to other resources? Let's say for sake of example that you settle on $65,000 per year.

      (2) What kind of return can you earn on your investments? Think of this in terms of percentage of annual return. For background, the stock market has returned an average of about 11% per year (dividends plus price increase) over time (over the last 100 years or so). Some investors do not do that well. Some do much better. Keep in mind that whatever you think you can net, some years will be up and some down. Okay. You have a net worth of $1.1M. This DOES NOT reveal how much of this is liquid. To continue the example, let's say you have $900,000 of liquid investments and are confident that you can earn 8% per year.

      Sentiment: Buy

      • 1 Reply to thisistruth
      • I seem to have run up against some sort of length limit. So I am continuing here.

        In this example, your investments will net you $72,000 a year - enough to cover your expenses WITHOUT touching the original principal. Obviously, I chose numbers in the example to work out that way, but the idea is the point. If your expected percentage is lower, anticipated expenses are higher, or liquid assets are different ... Well, as they say YMMV. Coincidentally, my spouse and I retired the same day over 15 years ago with about that same amount of invested assets and less than $25K per year in pensions. We have spent over $90K per year over the last 10 years - BUT we do somewhat better than 8% on our investments and actually have a higher net worth than when we retired.

        Only you can decide what your numbers are. I hope the discussion was useful.

    • It all depends on your income and expenditures. Six years ago, I retired with $1.2 million and no debt. My investments afforded me close to $40k per year in dividends and interest. With that income, I was still able to continue saving and investing. At the age of 62, three years ago, I began collecting Social Security. One thing a lot of people don't realize is that waiting until you reach between 65 to 75 years of age to start collecting SS is really stupid, especially if you don't need the money. There are two reasons to collect at the age of 62, if you don't need the money.

      Reason 1. If you wait until the age of 65 to 75 years you will actually collect less than you would over your lifetime. If you don't believe that, then just assume an average lifetime of 85 years and multiply your estimated payments of SS for 33 years (age 62 start 12month X monthly payout) or your estimated increased payments above 65 years of age (12 month X monthly payout). You'll find out that you'll receive more over your lifetime if you begin at 62.

      Reason 2. If you don't need your SS payout, still begin collecting at 62. Since you don't need the money, invest it. Let's say you'll get $12k per year. That means by the time you're 65, you'll have $36k saved/invested up from your payments and with a reasonable return you'll have approx. $50k saved/invested
      and at 5%, that will earn you $2.5k per year, which will offset your raise in SS should you decide to take it at 65. Furthermore, if you die at 65, you get nothing from SS, but if you take SS at 62 then you'll have a lump sum to leave your heirs.

      As I said, I retired when I accumulated $1.2m, owned my residence, and had no debt. During the Great Recession of 2008-2010 my net worth fell to about $650k, but I had the income stream of my divvys/interest to see me through those times, until everything recovered. And now I have more than $1.2m and I continue to save/reinvest. Continued in reply to this message:

    • rodentologist Feb 2, 2014 6:45 AM Flag

      "Hmmn,should I retire now (age 61) with net worth of $1.1 mill?"

      Pumpdy, you've barely made minimum wage all your life, and you lost most of that on your stock trades.

      • 2 Replies to rodentologist
      • Pumpdy, you've barely made minimum wage all your life, and you lost most of that on your stock trades*************************************
        Nope,I made about 40k per yr for many yrs with NZ Telecom back in the 80s and 90's. .My wife had a job with Bank of NZ and we both worked full time ,overtime for me.
        But I saved hard and invested ,using compounding to the max.
        Work it out : 80k per yr for 30 yrs is $2.4 million before tax ,without compounding.

      • Yes, pumpdy should aspire to live in a #$%$ condo next to the swamp in florida, and lose all his money shorting MO instead. And be unemployed for most of his adult life. That would be sucess!


        P.S. Pumpdy, if you do have $1.1M, you WITHOUT A DOUBT have more money than Vermin. That is why he is trying to say you don't, it's envy.

    • I'm 49 pushing 50 and also at $1.1m with a $50k annual military retirement thinking about retiring as well. My problem is what will I do all day? Any suggestions? So far I feel I need the office environment and sense of purpose.

      • 4 Replies to bushrulz
      • Get a few hobbies you really enjoy. You don't have to remain 100% busy. I took 3 periods of sabbatical from work between 5 and 9 months an did nothing particularly exciting but every other day I would do one of my hobbies (ski, MTB). I also took up marathon running. Sometimes my hobby only consumes 2-3hrs of a day, but nothing like waking up late, not having to rush to get to work/etc. It was peaceful and I can't wait to do it permanently.

      • I went back to school, got the MS, now the PhD, and 'work' 3 evenings a week, and Saturday mornings. I've written a chapter on treating transgendered children.

        If you have the intelligence, go for it. 20-30 years in the military would be a brutal barrier to critical thinking.

        Sentiment: Strong Sell

      • rodentologist Feb 2, 2014 6:46 AM Flag

        "I'm 49 pushing 50 and also at $1.1m with a $50k annual military retirement thinking about retiring as well. My problem is what will I do all day? Any suggestions? So far I feel I need the office environment and sense of purpose."

        You could walk up to people on the street and salute.

      • My problem is what will I do all day? Any suggestions? So far I feel I need the office environment and sense of purpose.
        That's the hard part. You have to get away from this "need for a boss etc ".
        I decided to just buy a small boat and "go fishing". If I want ,I can volunteer at the pet rehome centre or whatever.You must think like an investor and get good at it.

    • I think you could, IF you live simply, don't get into major health trouble, are supporting only you and your spouse and don't plan on leaving a lot to charity or your heirs upon your death.

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