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Microsoft Corporation Message Board

  • yahoo yahoo May 3, 2005 3:35 AM Flag

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    • Well, neither you nor I have a crystal ball as to MSFT's intent in securing patents. But it the current environment of patent suits it would be blatently foolish not to patent a technology they invented. Of couse, it's perfect basher bait.

      That aside, it would be nice for a statement of intent; but prior to a grant that seems unlikely. I agree that taking .Net into ECMA (and ISO, incidentally) was a great PR move. Conversely, though, it would seem odd for MS to take that action, only to withdraw it at this stage -- a PR debacle.

      There is some interesting speculation, but it is just speculation:

      "One person affiliated with the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), another major standards body, said it's difficult to comment on the .Net patents without knowing Microsoft's specific plans. The W3C is in the process of developing a policy that would let the organization include patented technology in its standards as long as companies agree to provide the technology royalty-free. The person, who asked not to be identified, said Microsoft has agreed to such terms in the past."

      source: news.com.com/2100-1001-984052.html

      <<And it seems funny that bring up C and COBOL, which doesn't fit at all with either the CLR or the JVM...>>

      The migration of legacy *nix C apps (and other languages) is a major .Net target. And Fujitsu among others is targeting the enormous mainfame COBOL base (estimated to be 65% of code in production worldwide). Yes, there is COBOL.Net, Fortran.Net, etc. I think they're dead-ends, but we shall see.

    • Thanks for the reply.

      Hopefully, the link you provide really does mean that there is nothing to worry about, but I do know that legal commentary on Microsofts patents expressed concern as to how broad the patent was. I'm not good at legalese but perhaps theres a lawyer on the board, the patent is here.

      http: //appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/
      nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='20030028685'.PGNR.&OS=DN
      /20030028685&RS=DN/20030028685



      <Question 39: Do you fear that Microsoft will change the spec and render Mono useless?

      No. Microsoft proved with the CLI and the C# language that it was possible to create a powerful foundation for many languages to inter-operate. We will always have that.

      Even if changes happened in the platform which were undocumented, the existing platform would a value on its own.
      >

      From the link you provided, I think the author of MONO (Miguel) might be a little naive, if he really thinks the project would have any value even if Microsoft changes the spec.

      <Question 40: Are you writing Mono from the ECMA specs?

      Yes, we are writing them from the ECMA specs and the published materials in print about .NET.
      >

      Like I said in the previous post, Microsoft has not committed to following any ECMA standard. They could break MONO in a month.

      <Regarding languages -- ok, make the whole world Java. Ignore the massive quantity of existing code in C, C++, COBOL, et cetera on various platforms. Do a massive re-write; good luck explaining that one to the CTO/CIO. >

      Raising a straw man, are we. I never said, there only need be one language. And it seems funny that bring up C and COBOL, which doesn't fit at all with either the CLR or the JVM, although they have their place.

      <Legacy systems aside, coding in .Net is a fraction of lines and overhead of Java.>

      Perhaps you should explain what you mean here. I've shown people side by side, Java and C# code, and typically they laugh at how similar they look. Are you talking about something else.

    • Don't think patents are an issue. Mono FAQ's address this in detail:

      http://www.go-mono.com/faq.html#patents

      "The core of the .NET Framework, and what has been patented by Microsoft falls under the ECMA/ISO submission. Jim Miller at Microsoft has made a statement on the patents covering ISO/ECMA, (he is one of the inventors listed in the patent): here.

      Basically a grant is given to anyone who want to implement those components for free and for any purpose."

      <<In other words, you are saying that with Java you have real choice with vendors and products and with .NET you don't.>>

      Nope. Read what I wrote. Addressing this new issue you raise, note that MS is neither the only IDE vendor, and free open-source implementations exist. MS even funds one of the free sites where you can download everything you need for ASP.Net (www.asp.net) as well as free portals, free "starter kits" and so forth.

      Regarding languages -- ok, make the whole world Java. Ignore the massive quantity of existing code in C, C++, COBOL, et cetera on various platforms. Do a massive re-write; good luck explaining that one to the CTO/CIO. Legacy systems aside, coding in .Net is a fraction of lines and overhead of Java.

    • <There is one key feature of Java that is very advanced, and probably 1-1/2 years ahead of current hardware (according to friends who are working with .NET).>

      Sorry, I meant to say 'one key featue of .NET' here.

    • As a software developer out here slugging it out in the trenches I have to say ... Java?! ... what about it? I hear quite a bit of hype but I have yet to get a call from a headhunter asking if I know Java. Where are these 700,000 plus developers? I
      hear that figure everywhere but I never hear how it was calculated or even what the source is and it usually seems to be coupled with the word "estimated". I've been looking at Java for some time now just to play things safe and I'm ready to jump on the Java bandwagon if that's where the serious development dollars go, but right now it's just not happening. Until that happens, Java will be just another hype show aimed at the gurus and developers who are desperate to be on the "bleeding edge".
      And NC's??!! Oh God, don't get me started... Didn't we do that already back in the 70's -- yes I believe back then they were only slightly less sophisticated and they were called terminals.

    • I agree with the criticisms leveled at Microsoft and Bill Gates.

      I would strongly encourage all of you to sell your Microsoft holdings so I can afford to accumulate more Microsoft stock before it skyrockets again.

 
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