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Vringo, Inc. Message Board

  • h_grant_h h_grant_h May 3, 2013 5:56 PM Flag

    Patent 420 is now on the verge of being either cancelled or core claims largely modified - USPTO

    From the company's update: "May 3, 2013, ........ Today, the USPTO notified I/P Engine that examiners assigned to the re-examination maintained their rejections of the claims of the '420 patent. I/P Engine will continue to follow the USPTO procedures to uphold the validity of the '420 patent, including filing an appeal to the Board of Patent Appeals and Interferences of the USPTO."

    A couple of things came to mind, as I pointed out previously.

    1) Contrary to those "lawyers on SeekingAlpha" claimed otherwise, as I pointed out months ago, the ex parte reexam may be a lot faster this time. Now, we have proof - the USPTO has issued its Final Action, in which the core claims in patent 420 have been rejected by the PTO.

    2) As I pointed out, VRNG had 30% odds of surviving the reexams. Now, it is rereduced to filing an appeal to the BPAI. The odds of VRNG winning in the appeal is about 10%.

    3) In about three months from now, we shall hear from BPAI on patent 420 conclusion. VRNG shareholders are now in danger of losing their shirts - the stock will likely hit $1 range very quickly, before Oct, 2013.

    4) Patent 664 and 420 are basically correlated on the core claims. The bad news on 420 is not a good indication for 664 reexam on-going.

    Wow, Google didn't really need a "workaround" after all, even tho it's been working and tested by I/P lawyers already.

    It's time to sell the stock.

    SortNewest  |  Oldest  |  Most Replied Expand all replies
    • Thus far since the verdict last Nov, SeekingAlpha "lawyers" have done nothing else but helped to trap those ignorant investors in this stock.

      That blogger, "PatentPlays" is the worst kind - SeekingAlpha forbids me to comment on those "authors"!! Talking about one-sided manipulation by those liars hiding behind SeekingAlpha.

    • Get ready for the final collapse - it could happen anytime now.

      Why? The big bad hedge funds holding the big losing position must unload some meaningful percentage of holdings, when there is still some dumb bids pretending to not to care.

      This stock should be trading under $2 in 2013.

      • 3 Replies to h_grant_h
      • This stock? What stock are you talking about. No way to know. Yahoos intension to slow all down.

      • From hereon, this trading will shift to "Who will bail who out amongst the biggest hedge funds holding the bags" from "Who would take it higher on any given event out of the court".

        May 3 of 2013 will prove to be the day when the bulls become the perennial losers with this stock, b/c everyone of them must now think about how to get out with a little dignity and smaller losses.

        You know, if anything, the stock market will tech you to be honest as a human being in your life, anywhere, not just in trading and investing. If you still think you can pretend nothing has happened to VRNG's patent 420 after May 3, 2013, you're seriously being delusional, and you're lying to yourselves.

        There is no other way to put it, seriously. This trading game will be a lot uglier from hereon.

      • What you people must understand that, soon, very soon, the biggest bad hedge fund will figure out that, by losing those core claims in patent 420, which is pretty much a given (90% odds VRNG loses the appeal), there will be very little left for scraps in the final dog fight amongst those biggest players. Most of them will lose at lest 60-70% of their initial investment above $4.35.

        It's only a matter of time, even those most of the hedge fund managers are really no the sharpest cookie in reality. But they will figure it out eventually.

    • We got this thing called the 7th Amendment. It says "AMENDMENT VII

      In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law." The validity of 420 was a fact tried by a jury and will not be reexamined. I hope this helps your thought process.

    • Reply to Question for h_grant_hby ian.stroup •Oct 13, 2012 1:08 AM
      jeffswaterworks jeffswaterworks • Oct 13, 2012 1:48 AM Flag6 users liked this posts users disliked this posts 0 Reply h_grant_h is either just totally stupid or he is a paid basher. This is the same Y! identity that was proclaiming that Microsoft would beat VHC at trial because MSFT had patented the same concepts AFTER VHC!!!

      I cannot fathom one person being so ignorant of facts about; 1) the patents and their content, 2) the way the USPTO functions, 3) the way Fed. Court functions, and 4) the ability of the people on this board to think circles around him. The biggest clue that h_g_h is smarter than he comes across is that as soon as he is losing an argument about the technology, the patents, or the US court system with anybody he calls them a pumper and says he puts them on ignore, therefore ending the intellectual sass whooping that is being put on him. He also finds intelligent posters that have proclaimed that they will no longer be posting on the jacked up Y! and THEN challenges them to prove him wrong.

      I'm not stereotyping or being prejudice, but I really picture the person behind most of h_g_h as being a late 40s Vietnamese man that spends his weekends dressing in mufti and single Culture Club songs down at the local karioki bar (and I'm sure I spelled that word wrong and I don't care, the whole concept was a creation of the devil on one of his worst hangover days!). Oh, and telling people how important he is to his company. Less

      Need we say more?

    • h_grant_h, as usually you are giving an incomplete analysis designed for your own investment purposes and are leaving out some important pieces...

      1) Google were already found guilty on all 14 claims - they do not get a "do over". They will file a motion and the Judge will respond negatively and they will appeal. Everyone is expecting an appeal anyway, hence growth of short interest after they did not reach a deal.

      2) As per the USPTO, VRNG is provided the opportunity to change and narrow the language in order to preserve the claim (it is part of the "appeals" process which itself is a misnomer becuase it is more "process" than "appeal". Look at the comments from VRNG on Friday, business as usually this is litigation, it's not pretty.

      2-b) In this case the main issue here is using the words "wire" and "wire system" in some claims and not in others. These are relatively easy terms to change without stepping on prior art while still maintaining both the spirit of the law and the intent of the patent.

      I could go on but you get the point.

      So answer this ...

      What is Google's case in the appeal?

    • Remember: the USPTO itself has already set a precedent in the Baxter International case when in its ruling the USPTO judges themselves stated: "If a federal court awards relief to a patent holder against an infringer, a subsequent reexamination decision that the patent is invalid does not disturb the judgment of the court or alter its binding effect on the parties."

      Read it again. It means that even if the USPTO rules a patent is invalid, any court verdict that includes a monetary judgment award STANDS and is NOT impacted one bit.

      Bottom line: Once you have a jury verdict in-hand, the USPTO becomes in large part a toothless tiger -- it looks scary but can't bite you.

      GOOG lost the jury verdict 112-0 on all 14 claims against both patents, '420 and '664. You're forgetting that it only takes one successful claim against one patent for GOOG to lose. All the noise is about '420 whereas '664 is quite strong. This is all bull.

      • 1 Reply to fu12315
      • You're wrong, fu12345.

        May 3, 2013 will be the effective date when the patent shall be either modified or the core claims cancelled, should VRNG fail its appeal, which is highly likely.

        In other words, should JJ rule that the jury verdict stands, the damages rewarded to VRNG, may only be applicable up to May 2, 2013, assuming Google would fail its appeal also.

        The Baxter case was only valid to a certain date, the effectitve cutoff date, when the patents in question were rejected by the USPTO in a final action. In other words, The USPTO has authorities over all Federal Courts, to the effective date when any patent is rejected in final action.

        You should go read the USPTO website. It's all there.

    • Let me revise the tittle of the topic as:

      "Patent 420 is now on the verge of being either largely modified or core claims cancelled - USPTO"

      A couple of more observations:

      5) While VRNG may proceed with the appeal, this Final Action by the PTO has profound implications to the MSFT case, and to the Judge who must render his final judgment in the case against Google.

      To MSFT, it has now a very good reason to postpone any interaction with VRNG, until a final decision out of the BPAI, and then depending on what VRNG will do afterwards. That may stretch into another two to three years. So, MSFT got lucky before a real fight in court. Go figure that out!

      6) For Google, it has now a much potent ammo added to its appeal case. Google now may clearly point out to the appeal judge that the BPAI decision isn't far away on patent 420. And thus, the Appeal Court may have very good grounds to stay the case until VRNG appeal(s) concluded. That could stretch into two to three years from now.

      7) As a result from this Final Action from the PTO, the bet on VRNG has now officially gone terribly wrong for those big hedge funds! They must now think about protecting themselves in a bad way, b/c the judge might actually declare the patents invalid, on good grounds by referencing the USPTO! Wow, you want to bet on that after everything else?

      I think they will dump it first. There is very little left to wish for from the bulls, large or small.

      • 2 Replies to h_grant_h
      • Here's a scenario in the MSFT case. Let's assume VRNG proceed to the court case against MSFT. On its first hearing, MSFT would point out to the Judge that Patent 420 has been rejected by the PTO in Final Action, and therefore request to stay the case until the decision from appeal.

        What would you think the Judge would do? I think it's highly likely the judge would grand a stay the case. And guess what? MSFT has now a 90%+ odds to win, hands down, by doing practically nothing.

        And for Google, what exactly so different from hereon? It's pretty much a stay the case, same scenario, only in the appeal court. What could be very interesting tho, is that Google may actually ask JJ to stay hid final judgment!

        I mean, what good reasons JJ may have now that he knows what VRNG is faced with the USPTO on the core claims in the patents? It's rather convenient if JJ would simply also wait it out! Stay the final judgment.

        Well, the gamblers are lost in many ways after today.

      • Read this HGRANT , it refutes everything ur saying -

    • it's definately time to buy on Monday.

    • Good job Bud!!!!

      If these baggies can't figure out what you just wrote, I have ZERO sympathy for them. Investing in patent plays is a dangerous game. I think NEON has the best shot out of anybody and they're keeping quiet about it. What does that tell you?

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