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Linn Energy, LLC (LINE) Message Board

  • rlp2451 rlp2451 Oct 3, 2011 9:08 AM Flag

    OT - Another Federal Green Energy Fiasco

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/03/business/a-us-backed-geothermal-plant-in-nevada-struggles.html?pagewanted=2&tntemail0=y&_r=1&emc=tnt

    This one in Harry Reid's back yard.

    "In a remote desert spot in northern Nevada, there is a geothermal plant run by a politically connected clean energy start-up that has relied heavily on an Obama administration loan guarantee and is now facing financial turmoil.

    Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the Democratic majority leader, has promoted several geothermal projects in his state.

    The company is Nevada Geothermal Power, which like Solyndra, the now-famous California solar company, is struggling with debt after encountering problems at its only operating plant. "

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    • Hi Glenn,

      There are viable applications for solar and thermal but they are not base load – as you say.
      Americans invented the PC and now we invented portable communication/information/entertainment. But we do not make them. That is a problem we must solve.
      Electricity is a commodity. It is therefore no more valuable economically than the marginal cost of production. No one believes solar will be less expensive than coal or natural gas in our life time - at least.
      But in their grand delusion they are attempting to share as illusion, solar is some perverted holy grail of middle class jobs. When all it does achieve is make problem number one nearly impossible to solve.
      Imagine if all that Progressive crony capital had been invested in natural gas as transportation fuel and grants for clean more efficient coal designs. Why do they insist on putting Americans in the oil, natural gas and coal industries out of work to feed their delusions? But more important why do we regular ordinary common sense Americans accept this thin laughable illusion?
      As you say Glenn – madness. Americans are better than this. I know we are! Time to wake up!

      Real Democrats do not put American's coal and gas workers out of their good paying jobs so some corrupt clown can make 'solar panels' and 'solar plants'. What the heck are we doing?

    • Norris

      I believe you make a great point...solar/geo=thermal has great home/bus applications, but are limited to such...the natural resources we have combined with them would make this country awfully rich in jobs and wealth!

      Glenn

    • Why on earth does America with many times the energy reserves of every other country on earth need to be the first to solar panels? We are not Europe, Japan or China which must import energy.

      Let them spend on the technology development. It is one energy source and given our massive reserves of natural gas and coal in no way significant to America.

    • Thanks RLP!

    • Another correction; US=$40 billion to China's $30 billion.

    • Sorry, I gave out the wrong number.

      The amount of US subsidies is closer to $49 billion, not 5 billion. (China's estimated subsidies is around $39 billion.)

      http://lincicome.blogspot.com/2011/09/game-on-highly-subsidized-us-solar.html

      My apologies.

    • Nevada Geothermal Power should not be compared to Solyndra as is clearly established in the NY Times article which includes the following statement:

      "There are important differences between the fate of Nevada Geothermal and Solyndra, the maker of solar panels that has filed for bankruptcy.

      The amount of money the federal government has at stake with Nevada Geothermal — a loan guarantee of $79 million plus at least $66 million in grants — is much smaller than the $528 million investment in Solyndra. There have been no allegations of wrongdoing by Nevada Geothermal or its Blue Mountain, Nev., plant.

      Executives of the company express confidence that they can recover and say that the government investment is not at risk, despite the challenges they face because of a high debt load and lower-than-expected energy output at their plant."

      Brief quotes from a lengthy article can be misrepresentative.

    • Like all new technology companies....there are always a few that will not make it.

      Again, this company was also vetted and promoted by the Bush Adminstration....nothing wrong with that....it happens.

      No reason we should blame either adminstration.....and certainly no reason not to promote GREEN energy

      • 1 Reply to plmo_trader1
      • "no reason not to promote green energy"

        As both a solar and geo thermal home user, and as stated on these mb's a nbr of times, green energy saves me several thousand dollars a yr on my energy bills. However, where our nation is going wrong with green is that we are doing it all wrong.
        1-we are using green as a pol cover to pay off pol friends with campaign paybacks
        2-we are subsidizing corps, rather than the end user....intl govts are much more wiser by providing the capital for home/business investment for installation of these green resources and thus reducing their national requirements for fossil fuels....

        If we were to take the billions given away already that have led to zero accomplishment and gave that money to home owners to pay for the installations wityh a payback of 50/50, this nation could reduce m/e fuel needs by a substancial amount. Wherever the sun shines with a 80% production capability, and the homes and business that live atop aqua pools or reservoirs could be substancially paid for upfront with that money and the individual home/bus owners could share a 50% reduction with the gov't till its paid off. In my case, that would be 7 yrs....

        Corp's making these green energy products would prosper and do their own r&d and provide better answers than pol payoffs ever will.

    • Good Morning RLP,
      So private equity negotiated a 14% interest rates on what is defacto government debt?
      Note to that the electricity rate to be paid by consumers was never disclosed.
      The part that should scare every responsible American is that the net present value of cost is probably lower in paying off Obama’s private equity cronies than if the plant had worked.
      The saddest part is that it is logical to use solar panels in dual use to provide cooling shade and energy in cities. Like windmills in logical locations like parts of our Midwest it is close enough economically to be viable as a source diversification. But none of it is anywhere near base load application.
      Chu and his Nobel Prize are smarter than you. Really. Just ask a Progressive and they will answer in their carefully preprogrammed religious chant. Ethics, morals and character are relative concepts. Really.
      Line has about 50% of reserves in natural gas ready to go.

      • 2 Replies to norrishappy
      • "So private equity negotiated a 14% interest rates on what is defacto government debt?"

        Actually this is not correct. Nevada Geothermal has 2 outstanding loans. The first, with an outstanding balance of $91 million and no U.S. guarantee, carries an interest rate of 14%. The second, with an outstanding balance of $93 million and an 80% U.S. DOE guarantee, carries an interest rate of 4.4%.

        This project seems to be a Harry Reid issue as former aides of his are top executives of a major contractor for the plants construction.

      • GM Norris

        What a great post...what struck me hard was your comment "The part that should scare every responsible American is that the net present value of cost is probably lower in paying off Obama’s private equity cronies than if the plant had worked."

        Now if the mass media were to calculate and report just what the payoff/back dollars would have been necessary in cash vs the actual $$$ being delved out, 50% of what we spent thus far could have been saved if we were to just pay it out...

        hows that for fundamental change!

 
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