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Linn Energy, LLC (LINE) Message Board

  • rlp2451 rlp2451 Feb 4, 2013 11:03 AM Flag

    I think Sand an I agree for once

    Re: Hydrogen

    But we haven't answered my question:

    If hydrogen powered vehicles become economical (and at-home fueling stations can be made available as well), what happens to the oil market? Natural gas MAY be used to generate hydrogen, but that it not the ONLY method, so would NG markets suffer too?

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    • "Natural gas MAY be used to generate hydrogen, but that it not the ONLY method"

      It's the most efficient method and is the method used for 95% of hydrogen production.
      Other methods are more inefficient (require higher energy inputs)
      Sand will tell you that the waterfall in his backyard can provide all America's hydrogen needs, however not everyone has niagara falls in their back yard.

      Since energy is lost in the conversion from NG to hydrogen, we'd do better to simply burn the NG in vehicles directly rather than convert it into hydrogen as an intermediate step.
      Bottom line: mass use of hydrogen vehicles would increase consumption of fossil fuels and emission of greenhouse gases.

      • 1 Reply to lizahuang54321
      • Wrong....maybe.

        You do not get it. And the reason that you do not get it is because you are used to thinking about natural gas and that it must be delivered to where it is going and that is NOT the case with Hydrogen because it is very easy to make right at the point of sale.

        On:
        "It's the most efficient method and is the method used for 95% of hydrogen production."

        Only about 4& is now made by electrolisis......BUT if you make it on site what will you not need in cost .....the cost of pipelines......There is no delivery restriction. There is no delivery cost.

        It is easy enough to make that most 8th graders have made it with their chem teachers and there are now containerized commercial units that are available for fueling at gas stations and they even have options for the power source.

        So keep repeating and calling all the names you like but when you decide to go read about it....

        I posted the model number yesterday so that you and all your pipeline buddies can go look at what will probably really be the way Hydrogen is made on site....even though only 4% is made by electrolisis now.....and there is a reason that is the ppercentage now..

        ...how many hydrogen powered vehicles do you see in your neighborhood?....None yet?

    • We usually do not agree....but for a good reason(s).

      Cogitate on this one:

      Submarines are powered by onboard nuclear power just like your utility....but i do not thing you need to worry too much about running your car on uranium just yet....George Jetson.

      Maybe hydrogen running cars are a decade or two away?
      Or,
      Maybe something else by then?

      But,
      Home hydrogen conversions for fueling of propane run homes are really pretty easy.

    • The only economically viable supply is natural gas reformation. Over 50% of American homes have natural gas infrastructure.

      Toyota is looking to vault batteries and even the internal combustion ng car with the ng fuel cell.

      BMW and Toyota have finalized a deal for the future of each automaker's hydrogen fuel cell technology.

      The agreement will mean BMW licenses future fuel cell technology from Toyota, and marks the latest point in the two automakers' recent cooperations.

      BMW will begin developing a prototype fuel cell vehicle in 2015, for the potential market release of a production car in 2020, says the Nikkei (via Automotive News).

      The German luxury automaker has previously experimented with hydrogen in internal combustion engines, but is set to expand its portfolio with a fuel-cell vehicle--the likes of which Toyota has been continually developing for several years now.

      Most recently, Toyota revealed the FCV-R concept. A midsize vehicle with a Prius-like silhouette (but typical concept car detailing), the FCV-R is touted for production some time in 2015. Range is said to be around 435 miles, and it would cost in the region of $50,000.

      BMW's hydrogen vehicle will sit among a range of increasingly innovative efficient vehicles--including a three-cylinder turbocharged engine set to feature in the MINI and some smaller BMWs, the i8 plug-in hybrid sports car, and the i3 electric car--which BMW recently confirmed will get a motorcycle engine-based range-extended option.

      The fuel cell plan isn't the first time BMW and Toyota have signed a technology-sharing agreement. Previous deals include the sharing of diesel engine technology, and batteries with lithium-air technology, now confirmed by both manufacturers.

      The deal will also include a sports car, likely to form the basis of the next Celica or Supra model, and next BMW Z4. The current agreement has finalized plans put in place after the two companies signed a memorandum of understanding in June last year.

      So maybe it is not so bad Obama gives 123Battery $250 million in our money and then sells the technology to China.

 
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