Every time this stock ticks up, you basher guys start posting furiously, spewing your venom at a corporation that you clearly have emotional issues with. It's quite entraining actually.
Reminds me of kicking a hornets nest. The price goes up, the bees swamp the boards...
Spew away, it's a slow day here in the office.
Great post web! Bravo.
These facts are hard to argue, but rest assured, jeye will have some kind of TM cut and paste.
Anyone else like to take a stab at this post and not be concerned with all of GM's issues?
<<<<And most of those reasons you listed why they wouldn't go BK was touted why they needed to be bailed out. I don't like what went down either, but whining about the past won't change a thing. Web, you seem to be somewhat fair....do you really think this new GM isnt different from the old?>>>>
The good: Fewer UAWs
Slightly lower debt
Cruze selling well
These earnings are unsustainable
Still has UAW infestation
Still have billions in unfunded pension liabilities
Fewer dealers to sell to
More enemies for life (people they screwed)
Lots of shares to be dumped on shareholders
Horrible sales of VOLT
Toyota scandals fading from headlines
Earnings of $4B? That's not that good for a company with $135B revs
Earnings artificially goosed by:
1) Major govt fleet purchases initially around IPO time
2) Stuffing the pipelines
3) Heavy incentive spending during Q1 and Q2
4) Lower incentive spending but more subprime financing during Q3
5) Absurdly huge federal tax break
I could go on and on...
<<<<<I mean, GM isn't selling more cars now, it's comparable to pre-BK, yet they are making decent earnings as opposed to losing millions. So what changed Webbie for the bucks to start coming in, and please don't say they lie about earnings, that just doesn't hold water, especially for 6 quarters in a row and by the amount they are blowing away estimates.>>>>>
ANS: Beating weak estimates don't mean squat. There are a few reasons why they MIGHT be doing better, and they're unsustainable.
1) The govt put $50B in their bank account, the remainder of which is collecting interest
2) They wiped their bondholders out, so they don't have to pay interest on their bonds anymore
3) The IRS gave them a $42B tax break they didn't have before
<<<<<So I ask Webbie, do you really think this new GM isn't different from the old?>>>>>
ANS: Their balance sheet is a little better; it's burning through cash. Inventories have grown by $2B in one year. This is not even counting the stuffed dealer pipeline.
Well they did go BK...
And most of those reasons you listed why they wouldn't go BK was touted why they needed to be bailed out.
I don't like what went down either, but whining about the past won't change a thing. Web, you seem to be somewhat fair....do you really think this new GM isnt different from the old?
I mean, GM isn't selling more cars now, it's comparable to pre-BK, yet they are making decent earnings as opposed to losing millions. So what changed Webbie for the bucks to start coming in, and please don't say they lie about earnings, that just doesn't hold water, especially for 6 quarters in a row and by the amount they are blowing away estimates. So I ask Webbie, do you really think this new GM isn't different from the old?
Interesting to observe all the back and forths.
Supor isn't perfect, but he's mostly taken the higher road---rational, fact based posts--and ocassionally loses his temper with Webby an MAllen. Anyone who has been reading this board these past 2 weeks can easily see this. I appreciate his efforts, but he's clearly overwhelmed by the board resident posters who, lacking ability to dazzle with brilliance and, therefore, choose to baffle us with B.S.
<<Too many jobs depend on GM." MOSTLY WRONG - the GM they were talking about doesn't even exist anymore>>
In 2000, when auto sales in the U.S. peaked at around 17 million units, the unemployment rate in Michigan was only 3.3%. When sales fell to 10.4 million in 2009, unemployment rose to 14.1%. Michigan's jobless rate last month was down to 10.9%.
This employment recovery was led by Ford (NYSE: F ) , General Motors (NYSE: GM ) , and Chrysler as the industry added close to 90,000 jobs. Cars are moving off the lots strongly now, and industry watchers see a quite possible 13 million units sold by the end of 2011 as a sign of a strengthening economy.
In the driver's seat
New management teams not made up of the usual Detroit suspects may have helped this renaissance. Ford CEO Alan Mulally was at Boeing previously. GM Chairman and CEO Daniel Akerson came from the telecom business. These outsiders' perspectives perhaps helped their companies not repeat the mistakes of the past.
I think web-dunce owns stock in this company.
On the day that The General announces involuntary gastric bypass surgery at the hands of Dr. O and while Crash Cart Chrysler waltzes with the Grim Reaper, not all is well with Toyota. The nosy newsmen at Boston’s ABC affiliate exposed a nasty little secret hiding under Toyota’s hospital gown. Yesterday, Team 5 divulged “more than two dozen complaints filed with the National Highway Traffic Administration” regarding 2001 and 2002 model year Tundra frames that are rusting and blowing away. Today Toyota implied responsibility when they offered to buy back the rust buckets at full retail value. Keep in mind that this issue is limited to certain areas of the USA and Canada where salt is used as the predominant ice melting material.
And keep in mind the shreiks we got for saying it
"This is a hundred year-old company; it's been around long before you got here and will be here long after you're gone...." WRONG
"This company is an icon of American prestige; the US would never let GM go bankrupt!" WRONG
"The government will never allow GM to fail. Too many jobs depend on GM." MOSTLY WRONG - the GM they were talking about doesn't even exist anymore
"GM is too important to the nation's defense. They would never let this manufacturing capacity disappear." WRONG/RIGHT. It makes relatively few defense products. And it did file BK, but it's still around.
"This is a blue chip company. The smart money knows GM will come back." WRONG if they didn't sell, they lost 100% of their investment.
Similar idiotic posts are being made every day by GM pumpers about the New GM.
<<<<So how much you lose when GM went BK?>>>>
You gotta be kidding.
You're talking to MAllen. This is the guy who seriously TOLD THIS BOARD GM was dead meat in 2006. He saw it coming and gave the reasons why. And he was right.
MAllen is the LAST guy in this room you should ever accuse of losing money on old GM. I probably go back further than anybody in here but him, and I remember distinctly his entry in my contest was not a date but a statement that they were bankrupt already...and just hadn't filed yet....and this was in 2006.
They filed June 1st 2009.
And you sir act as if we are buying old GM stock....
Lol...I guess when you make investment decisions, you look at where a company has been instead of where it's going...
So how much you lose when GM went BK?