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General Motors Company Message Board

  • thsykes14 thsykes14 Nov 21, 2012 9:54 AM Flag

    Are Unions the problem?

    In short, no. Are some unions out of control and out of touch? I think it may be safe to say that public employee unions are completely out of touch with current fiscal issues.

    BUT it is a simple, factual equation that we we support unions AND they provide something in return, the real question is, "When a union worker makes more than a salaried counterpart (not always the case a union worker makes more, RIGHT?), does the marginal cost of a union worker justify the marginal benefit to the company and country? In the auto sector, the math is simple. Toyota, honda and hyundai (non union) are spending hundreds and hundreds of million of dollars on recalls that Ford and GM (union shops) are not. Simple.

    I am not union, nor have I ever been union. But right now, trade unions all over the country are providing the training for much in demand middle tech and low tech jobs. Our junior colleges and corporations are not getting the job done. I am pragmatic and I also believe the multiplier effect of a well paid job (UNION OR NOT!!) is indispensable to our economy. STOP OFFSHORING AMERICAN JOBS!!!!

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    • S ykes-------You say unions give something in return, my question is what? If any thing it is miniscule.
      These are the things that unions take away from the economy and non union people:
      1. They increase the cost of living
      2. They increase taxes
      3. They create more people
      4. They reduce employment
      5. They drive jobs over seas
      So what do they give in return? Remember, you the non union member pay for all of the union benefits and you get nothing in return .
      And you say you support this? Unbelievable.

      • 2 Replies to longpickuptruck
      • Pickup, I'll answer, but I don't think it will change your mind. Again, there is NO reason to support ineffective unions, just like there is NO reason to support ineffective management. I want collaboration and success, period. I have a real problem with public unions.

        What do unions do for me? They provide me trained, motivated, well paid workers.
        a) i want the guy filling up an airplane with kerosene to be well paid, happy and motivated as opposes to ticked off and underpaid.
        b) that well paid worker will help drive his local economy.

        1. "They increase the cost of living": No they do not. An auto worker for hyundai or toyo is paid in the exact same league as a uaw worker. Both types of workers, uaw and other auto workers, receive profit sharing and bonuses The mere threat of collective bargaining puts a floor on wages for all. Based on results, it appears however, that uaw workers are happier and more motivated.

        2. "They increase taxes": No they do not. Unions are tax neutral and not a taxing authority anyway. I will tell you what does increase my taxes though.....alot. Chinese and Indian oil subsidies to their manufacturers, fixed rate currencies, riots in Korean parliaments rather than import American products. The American businesses and workers who are victims of this are out of work! More workers needing unemployment from the taxpayer. Not only can these workers not "pay in", but they are now taking. A double whammy.

        3. "They create more people": I am not exactly sure what you meant by this. I will say that world population needs to stop growing. I think when your country hits one billion people, you should throw a funeral and not a party. Also, i am concerned that certain countries and certain groups within our country, seem to be selectively aborting fetuses. I think that is called genocide. I have a problem with that. Why should OUR workers bear the brunt of THEIR issues?

        4. "They reduce employment": Some do and some don't. The history of the union is varied but good overall for the workers of America (and the world to be honest). If they price themselves out of a job, we all lose..........for sure. Teamsters union begged hostess cake workers not to strike.

        5. "They drive workers overseas": emphatically no. Why is a country like Mexico, which is in a free trade pact with US and Canada allowed to pollute at different levels?? Hugely different levels. Mexico City, Beijing and New Delhi are three of the most polluted cities in the world. What about worker rights and basic living wages? What about chemicals from the paper mill on the shores lake baikal in Russia? Lake baikal in russia is the only fresh water lake in the world larger than the great lakes. Why would banks we saved from extinction offshore service jobs to the philipines and india? R U kidding me? Really? POOR trade policy, shortsighted management and politicians, greed. These are FAR better places to start.

        Sorry, I'll stop! Enough of my lecture. Can u imagine how great my wife is to put up with this the day before Thanksgiving!!! But I want to offer that as a possibility anyway. Our workers are NOT the problem.

      • and nonunion lawyers ripping everyone off is okedoke,bankers screwing poor is just as sweet as a twinkee,polititions doing nothing and getting paid is as fine as wine,judges,cops,teachers all working 20 years and getting lifetime benifits at any age is ok,,,,,,,,,,,,,,B U T !!!!if some poor slob joins a union he`s the cause of jobs going over seas?lawyers suing for nothing drive way more jobs overseas,having one of the highest corp. tax rates drive more jobs overseas than unions?
        its unbelievable that anyone could be that stupid and put all the blame on unions?

    • I wish I could have given you a Ten Thumbs up on your post. But I only believe in having one Yahoo ID. Any way have a Great Thanksiving and a Great post.

 
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