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General Motors Company Message Board

  • jeyebolt2003 jeyebolt2003 Dec 13, 2012 9:53 PM Flag

    e: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So how many members will opt out of UAW when they get the chance?

    "Sorry, I agree. They were dumb."
    OK thank you
    "Why did GM only go bankrupt in one country?"

    Accounting. Where did the money come from to invest in other countries? How about Opel and Holden? Delphi pulled the same #$%$. Now even with the UAW GM best profits are here. Look they sold GMAC before the 2008 mess but was still responsible for some of their loses. If a framer sold his farm and two year later the new owner said you owe me because I had bad crops this year. The old farmer would laugh at him. Without No financial crisis no GM bankruptcy. Which the Auto industry didn't create, but the banks and Government did. If Rick would have got his way GM wouldn't have went Bankrupt. Sure they wouldn't be as well off as they are today, but they would have the Government Monkey on its back either. Have you seen some of the Headlines for the new trucks?Obama's bet on GM hangs on new pickups boosting share price.
    This won't help to sell them.
    Any way have a great evening

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    • "If Rick would have got his way GM wouldn't have went Bankrupt."

      Jeye, I'm sorry but that's just not true. GM went bankrupt because they RAN OUT OF CASH. They didn't have enough cash to make a bond interest payment and they HAD to declare bankruptcy. You're getting confused because just before they declared, Wagoner was in Washington asking for money to get them through the crisis. He was in Washington because all other avenues of financing were closed due to the credit freeze. Washington would not give GM the money without the bankruptcy...neither would I. GM simply had too much debt and not enough cash flow. Restructuring was the only answer.

      Was the economy a factor, of course. Were the bad JV's and poor selling models a factor, yes. Was the UAW a factor, yes.

      But it had nothing to do with what Wagoner wanted. GM could not have made it through the crisis without the government cash. It would have been liquidated in the U.S. Most of the foreign groups would have continued because they were self sustaining, but GM in the U.S. was dead.

      "How about Opel and Holden?"

      GM has owned Opel since 1930 and Holden since 1931...both are self sustaining. GM has been investing in China since the 80'sl, but they have long been self funding as well. Yes, GM is making a level of profit now and that's as a result of the restructuring. I remember a time in the 80's and 90's that Opel was making great money and North America was losing. Were they sending money over here? No. They are international rules regarding sending cash from country to country. Trust me, it's not as easy as you think. If you think I'm wrong, go to Canada and tell the border guards you are taking $50K to invest in the other country.

      • 2 Replies to wngr123
      • "Jeye, I'm sorry but that's just not true. GM went bankrupt because they RAN OUT OF CASH. "
        I know they was running out of cash that is why Rick wanted a loan. 21,000 other companies was running out of cash that is why the Fed's handed out $3.3 trillion in loans. GM got dragged through the mud. instead. Yes you can only take $10,000 in and out of Canada. This country runs on credit and credit had dried up because of the mess the banks and the Government got us into. I know when GM bought Opel and Holden. They've lost money for almost 15 years now.

      • cobrawolverine Dec 14, 2012 9:10 AM Flag

        Very well put wngr.

        Was the economy a factor, of course. Yes and no. It only sped up what was going to happen regardless. GM was out of cash and operating at a loss. Not sure how anyone can see this otherwise. Especially one that was working there or has worked there.

        as quoted by Mr. Ingrassia who won a Pulitzer for covering the GM crisis.

        'But the company signed generous labor deals during the 1970s, including the right to retire after 30 years with full pension and benefits, partly because it believed the contracts would cripple its smaller competitors, Ford and Chrysler. Then along came Honda, Nissan and Toyota, which didn't have to deal with labor contracts at all. That was the beginning of the agonizing decline.

        There were too many brands, too much debt, a cumbersome union contract as big as a phone book, and an enormous dealer network built for the glory years of yesterday instead of the market share of today'

    • McCain mover her to the back of the bus. He is one sorry dude.I hope his white sheet come back from the laundry with too much starch. He lost to the nut case "w" and then to President Obamam I'm sure he is depressed. Sorry, angry little white man.

    • cobrawolverine Dec 14, 2012 8:34 AM Flag

      GM did not go BK because of accounting. Come on jeye. I know you know better than this.

      GM was bankrupt on paper BEFORE the financial crisis. How many times do we really have to go over this. GM was losing BILLIONS, that's millions with a 'B'. The Financial crisis just moved up the process. The facts are there jeye, you DO NOT have anything to support otherwise. But there are hundreds of facts stating GM was operating at a huge loss way before the crisis and according to GM executives, BK was unavoidable one way or another.

      Stop living in fantasy.

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