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General Motors Company Message Board

  • firewalkerxr firewalkerxr Jan 20, 2013 1:12 PM Flag

    ANOTHER GM PLANT GETS THE WRECKING BALL AGAIN.

    Now it's in Grand Blanc,Michigan where 300+ skilled trade workers are victims of the new Snyder plan for Michigan.GM claims they have too many skilled trade workers as they have slashed the workforce in place of Outsourcing the work for lower pay and now another example.Claims they will be located but that is a Lance Armstrong statement as many will again except a voluntary layoff and collect 95% of their pay while a new company does their work for the soon to be dismantled plant.Wonder why these fools went Bankrupt last time.It's starting over again as many stated they have not learned their lesson.

    Sentiment: Strong Sell

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    • Mexico manipulates their currancy just about as bad as China.If Mexico's standard of living was so good then why do most of them want to cross the borders and get into the U.S iLLEGALLY.We bailed out GM as taxpayers and once again they are trying to break the workers wages at any cost.By the way a skilled trade worker didn't get that title with-out going thru a 4 year apprentice program and college as most of these skilled trade workers have completed.If people want to work at GM for $12 p/h then go for it as you will live in Poverty with a family,as the Wall Street corporation trys to steal more benefits from the employees just for their profits.By the way how did you like that retirement at 30 years,collecting a additional $30K and still making $100K after leaving Parma,Ohio with all skilled trade experiance GM will be Losing.Bankrupcy for GM in another 5 years as Management is still stupis as a box of rocks.

      Sentiment: Strong Sell

      • 1 Reply to firewalkerxr
      • "Mexico manipulates their currancy just about as bad as China."
        Really, prove it. What's your source? For that matter, prove it for China. Good luck. Do you know what it means to manipulate currency? I think not. Don't confuse that with the standard of living, two different and separate issues.

        "If Mexico's standard of living was so good then why do most of them want to cross the borders and get into the U.S iLLEGALLY."
        Mexico's standard of living is awful. I never said it wasn't. They are trying to get into the US for higher wages. Even our #$%$ jobs are attractive to them, that's how uncompetitive we really are. You sure really think through this all, you're missing the point.

        "If people want to work at GM for $12 p/h then go for it as you will live in Poverty with a family,as the Wall Street corporation trys to steal more benefits from the employees just for their profits."
        Number one, nobody in GM makes $12 an hour, even Tier II starts at $17. Number 2, corporations will ALWAYS try to maximize profits, it's what they do. Did you think corporations exist to give you a living? Corporations exist to provide products and services to customers at the lowest possible cost and the highest possible value. No other objective in mind, EVER. Don't be confused about that. If you want a job that doesn't believe that, work for the government.

        "By the way how did you like that retirement at 30 years,collecting a additional $30K and still making $100K after leaving Parma,Ohio with all skilled trade experiance GM will be Losing.Bankrupcy for GM in another 5 years as Management is still stupis as a box of rocks."
        I don't work at Parma, and I don't believe that management are the "stupis" ones.

    • With job openings literally everywhere in West Texas - let's focus on possibilities. Come on now - the automobile industry is downsized - it's the reality. Perhaps, just perhaps it's time to review location.

      The boom in West Texas appears now to have long, long legs. When a West Texas city such as San Angelo TX is told to expect a doubling of population in the next 3 years? And Midland/Odessa continues an enormous growth along with Abilene TX. Folks this is the real deal out here.

      We're going to provide the fuel going forward to assist the United States in becoming completely energy independent.

      Come on down - the door's open.

      • 1 Reply to greatday43
      • Let me add. Ground is broken for Chevron's new $100M Headquarters here in Midland. Pioneer also begins construction of their new Headquarters in Midland. A company in Houston plans construction of up to 5 100,000 sq ft 4 story office buildings beginning this year.

        Finding construction workers remains a HUGE problem. No business, of any sort can boost full staffing. Wal-Mart and McDonald's, for example, offer $14 per hour beginning part-time. Big signs all over - "We're ALWAYS hiring".

        Voters approved a $168M bond specifically for our school system growth.

        I see nothing but full speed ahead going forward.

    • Wngr, First off I didn't lose any job.Secondly you fail to understand that Outsourcing is a way of life at GM these days and trying to compete with 3nd World countries and their $3 per hour wages.It used to be these countries would compete for our standard of living buy like you and others would enjoy eating out of a Mud Puddle and fall prey to sub-standard work and countries like China where just last week people were having Heart Attacks just breathing the air.Talk about being being over-paid,when was the last time you visited a sleazy attorney and paid $300 per hour or a Dentist who charges $500 to put a crown on your tooth.the only reason why manufacturing is hit by lower wages competition is because trying to compete with a unfair trade practice all these countries are swindling the U.S. people into a lower standard of living as the example of Attorney and Dentist just can't be Outsourced.

      Sentiment: Strong Sell

      • 4 Replies to firewalkerxr
      • "swindling the U.S. people into a lower standard of living as the example of Attorney and Dentist just can't be Outsourced."
        ----------------------------------------------------

        You would be surprised about how incorrect you are on that. Last Winter, I went through
        Customs with a young man from Calgary who had lost six teeth playing hockey. He was
        able to fly to AZ, rent a car and motel room, have the teeth replaced and installed on
        implants for less than one-third of Calgary prices. Another time, I visited with an older
        man from 300 miles north of Vancouver, BC. His dental bill in Mexico was slightly more
        than 10% of the cheapest estimate he had seen in Canada. (Canadian dental prices
        are similar to those in the U.S.)

        Border towns are packed with Americans seeking dental, medical, eyeglasses,
        prescription drugs at affordable prices.

      • I am sorry to hear of that/your situation. It is altogether commonplace. And that doesn't make it easier either. I would like to add a couple thoughts, if I may. Maybe that is why you write here? You make many great points.

        1. "Outsourcing is a way of life at GM." Firewalker, you know that it is a way of life everywhere. What to do about it? That is the next question or step

        2. "Talk about being overpaid...." Many are overpaid, many are underpaid. What is a profession worth? How to determine?

        3. "....the only reason why manufacturing is hit by lower wages competition is because trying to compete with unfair trade practice a;; these countries are swindling the U.S. people into a lower standard of living..."

        Speaking about number 2., sometimes the answer is brutal, but in reality maybe more complex. In truest anarchic or competitive capitalism, you are worth ONLY the wage you would be paid if you left your present job (for any reason). If you quit and no one hired you to a new or similar job, you were overpaid. If you quit and doubled your salary at a new job, you were underpaid.
        But you know and I know that, for the most part, many skills are replaceable. We act with decency and ethics, we regulate or administer, realizing that in one form or another, we have received or will receive substantial aid from others at some point in our life. Examples: Think of our housing tax write off, think about JP Morgan borrowing at zero from our Fed (pretty nice, yeah? Is Jamie Dimon replaceable at the top of Morgan? HIGHLY), think of the help Hyundai gets from Alabama taxpayers who had NOTHING to do with Hyundai. SO......if we accept that pure anarchic capitalism does not work, what is the proper balance?

        Speaking about point number 3.: Competition provides the invisible hand. That is a very good thing. BUT, my firm belief is that comparative advantage only works as an economic model when there is consistency across all, or virtually all inputs. If one country can produce goods with limited or no pollution controls AND highly subsidized energy costs AND few to no labor laws AND no punishment for copyright or patent infringement, then the producer that has any or all of the above constraints is a HUGE loser! Sound familiar Firewalker?

        It should. America needs to lead all G20 nations into a far more level paradigm. The WTO is overwhelmed and ineffective.....100%. Corporate blackmail of towns, cities and countries will soon reach epidemic proportions.

        Firewalker, NO American should be told that a 12/14 dollar an hour job at Volkswagen in Chattanooga is their ticket out. Wages should be FAR higher there and I am sure, that with proper pressure on our elected officials and corporate officers to change our international paradigm, we can achieve that.

        I hope the best for you in the new year.

      • "Secondly you fail to understand that Outsourcing is a way of life at GM these days"

        You are seriously full of chit... Are you another pea-brain like scamantha? You DO know that GM just insourced ALL of their IT, right? Thousands of jobs...

        You seriously are looking to be on everyone's iggy list?!?!?

        Sentiment: Buy

      • "Wngr, First off I didn't lose any job"
        Great, I'm happy for you.

        "Secondly you fail to understand that Outsourcing is a way of life at GM these days and trying to compete with 3nd World countries and their $3 per hour wages."
        Outsourcing has been a way of life for a long time at any company where the employees have a wage/benefit structure that is out of line with their competitors. At GM, outsourcing has been going on for 20 years. It's the reason that UAW membership has dropped by about 75% during that time frame.

        "It used to be these countries would compete for our standard of living buy like you and others would enjoy eating out of a Mud Puddle and fall prey to sub-standard work"
        It has nothing to do with any individual, it's natural economic law that capital will flow to the most efficient system, which ain't the U.S. at this point.

        And as far as low cost countries being sub standard for quality, 'au contraire mon petit chou'. You are mistaken. I have personal, direct experience with a complex engineered product being made to the same blueprints both in the U.S. and Mexico. The Mexicans almost always have lower warranty costs than the same products made in the U.S.

        "the only reason why manufacturing is hit by lower wages competition is because trying to compete with a unfair trade practice all these countries are swindling the U.S. people"

        Mexico is about as clean as they come regarding competing on a level laying field. No tariffs, no currency manipulation, no border issues. We ARE playing on a level field with them... how's it working?? I'll tell you, they are killing us. So don't talk to me about a level playing field, we can't compete on a level playing field with most of these countries.

    • Firewalkerxr:

      I'm glad you at least understand why this move is being made:

      "GM claims they have too many skilled trade workers as they have slashed the workforce in place of Outsourcing the work for lower pay".

      Skilled trades workers have failed to understand what the non-skilled workers have already learned, skilled wages are not competitive to the market. GM has hired several thousands of new workers at the Tier II wage structure simply because it makes sense. It doesn't make sense to continue to pay skilled people wages that haven't been competitive for several years.

      I also don't believe you understand the economics of the situation when people are laid off. It doesn't cost the company 95% of their wages, more like 45%. The rest is made up in state unemployment compensation.

      I doubt very much that they will go bankrupt again since they are now getting rid of people making an uncompetitive wage. Sorry you lost your job.

 
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