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MEDIS TECH LTD Message Board

  • simonlives simonlives Jan 2, 2011 12:15 PM Flag

    David Redstone is dead

    Does anyone know how he died? A self-inflicted gunshot perhaps? He forgot to take his meds.

    Fittingly, David's website h2fc.com still boasts of his visit to the Medis "production facility."

    This is old news, apparently. 2010-11-25

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    • Here is just one example. Plenty more to prove David was as much of a victim as anyone else.

      Alex

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: David Redstone
      To: Gennadi Finkelstain
      Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 12:08 PM
      Subject: Re: How much money are you walking away with?


      You are sorry for you? You got everything you wanted from Bob and the company. You had a great time being the bigshot. You got rich.

      Your hubris was my undoing and the undoing of the shareholders. You had no idea what you were doing in deciding what the product would be. The $30, "20 watt hour" product made no sense. You wasted $100 million on manufacturing capacity for a product that no one could sell. On top of that you covered up (you basically lied) when your "orientation solution" wasn't nearly good enough, when your "power management" didn't work, when the product couldn't deliver the promised 20 Wh, etc. etc.

      Bob trusted you and I trusted Bob. You fooled Bob too and because I trusted him I was unable to see this in time.

      I am sure you will go wherever the technology goes and try again (and get richer). You should, because the basic chemistry is good. But next time get someone who knows what they are doing to decide what the product will be. And get someone who has a track record in manufacturing and bringing a new product to market to check what you are doing.

      Meanwhile I am ruined. As are many others. You have much to be sorry for. You have no right to feel sorry for yourself.


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Gennadi Finkelstain
      To: David Redstone
      Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 10:52 AM
      Subject: RE: How much money are you walking away with?


      I am really sorry for you and for me and for us.




      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      From: David Redstone [mailto:dr@h2fc.com]
      Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:37 PM
      To: Gennadi Finkelstain
      Subject: How much money are you walking away with?



      I lost everything.


      David Redstone, Editor & Publisher
      "The Hydrogen & Fuel Cell Investor"
      http://www.h2fc.com/
      dr@h2fc.com
      Detroit (EDT)
      248-855-2335

      • 1 Reply to missmichiganusa05
      • David had an incentive to convince you and other suckers that David was a victim like everyone else.

        I just don't believe Redstone was *that* dumb.

        David was *in* on the scam -- Medis management flattered him, they gave him corrupt contacts at Forbes and BusinessWeek to help pump Medis. But they didn't respect him -- he was just a tool, and in the end they abandoned him. Sure, he hated them -- but not because they "mismanaged Medis." He thought they mismanaged him.

        What's funny is you quote David ADMITTING many things he denied here over and over again:

        -- he frequently said orientation was a "non-issue" (I said otherwise since 2002).

        -- he knew the Medis power pack wasn't remotely equal to its claimed specifications

        -- he knew the power pack wasn't remotely like what Medis (and Redstone) promised since 2002

        Interesting, David also admits Gennadi got rich from the scheme.

        Medis made $400 MILLLION in shareholder money disappear -- not market cap, but real investor dollars. And Redstone cheerleaded, specifically urging people to buy despite the fact Redstone KNEW better.

        Redstone had to claim to be a victim too, to avoid getting lynched by all the people he impoverished. I don't believe it.

    • Folks,

      I have known David on a professional basis since 2006, and just learned about his death a few hours ago. I couldn’t believe it, so did some internet search. Reading the comments on this site really got to me in an unexpected way that has me worked up more than I would have ever expected. I am writing from my wife's account as my own expired.

      I have a PhD in physics, and have worked at a large OEM as a scientist and later team leader of SOFC research for several years. I was a team member of Bush’s FreedomCAR fuel cell tech team for several years, and I heard more about fuel cells than I care to remember. I first learned about Medis in 2006 when in a different role leading a materials R&D department. The technology definitely sounded too good to be true. As I looked into it, I ran across David's name, his web forum, and I began reading the H2FC posts. David sure could be curt and even rude at times, and it was pretty much a turn-off. Yet, after weeks of reading the posts, I decided to contact him to see if he could help introduce me to Medis (thinking they were too big to talk to me directly based on their market cap).

      I first met David in person at a Medis "pitch" meeting in CA, and we began developing a professional relationship around the whole fuel cell hoopla. After returning home, I downloaded the thirty patents or so and read them in detail. Unless you have done the same, please thread lightly - there is quite a bit of innovative thinking in there, and it served to further my curiosity in the technology. Over the next 3-4 years, I met with David at least a dozen times, and had many more email exchanges with him. This includes our visit to the Galway facility, where I scared the crap out of David driving on the wrong side of the road sitting in the wrong side of the car with the stickshift on the wrong side…

      Here are my key takeaways:

      - David Redstone is most definitely not a crook, and it hurts me to read so many misguided comments
      - David believed very strongly in the technology, and faulted management for mishandling it
      - Arrogance plagued Medis in so many ways – seriously strong innovation thoroughly mishandled by quite inadequate & over-confident management
      - Any and all manipulation accusations should be directed at Medis management - if David can be blamed of anything, it was being too gullible, as could be said about others of us
      - The way David ran his forum was really kind of shooting himself in the foot. He came off as biased, way too pro-Medis, and he kept insulting / alienating people. My assessment is that he was so jaded about the "hydrogen economy", all the DMFC & SOFC claims, etc., that he couldn't help himself but cling onto one technology he believed in
      - Despite all manipulation accusations, David kept buying Medis stock until it was a penny-stock. What fraudulent person would do that?
      - David was a loner. No steady relationship or family of his own outlook, the highlight of each year being his trip to the Dominican Republic. His passion was to call it the way he saw it even if he was misguided, there was absolutely zero malice in that
      - I have hundreds of email exchanges between me and David in his capacity as our company’s consultant to back up everything I state in this post, not least his personal fury about being misled by Medis management

      If anyone wants to contact me about my unwavering impression that David was an honest person, I would take personal time to avoid more slandering of his name. I am writing this as a private person, not representing my company, and I am giving you my personal email to that end: alexfromsweden@hotmail.com

      Rest in peace David; you were for sure an oddball, but a real refreshing and honest call-it-the-way-you-see-it person to-heck-with-anyone-else person. I was honored to know you and will miss you. I’m pissed, and wish you would have called on family or friends to discuss your desperation.

      • 3 Replies to missmichiganusa05
      • blue.mirror@ymail.com blue.mirror Aug 28, 2011 5:24 PM Flag

        Alex wrote: "I have a PhD in physics, and... later team leader of SOFC research for several years. If anyone wants to contact me about my unwavering impression that David was an honest person, I would take personal time"

        Well, I wrote to Alex. How strange that Tilyou identified Medis as a scam in 2002, and Alex defends David's honor and Alex's own by providing more proof David Redstone was a crook:

        1. Alex belatedly got very nervous about handing over copies of David's emails as he so publicly offered to do. So maybe his conscience is not completely dysfunctional. But in the end he did turn over some, and they are amazing reading.

        2. Alex PAID David Redstone for inside information about Medis technologies -- in 2007 he agreed to pay him $7000. Gotta love it: David built a career and a newsletter on spreading Medis disinformation ("Paid to Pump: the Restone story").

        3. Yep, Alex paid David for inside information, very explicitly. He even wrote: [Alex to David]: "Of course, your value follows Medis stock… Just kidding."

        4. But he wasn't kidding, and David knew it. Here's one of David's responses back:

        David>Medis has been talking about for some time has reacted very favorably
        David>to the Best Buy and financing announcements, and is now moving to
        David>quickly close a deal that will involve branding the Medis product with
        David>the OEM's logo. (Please be very discreet in discussing the OEM. You
        David>might want to wait until this announcement is made - it could be as
        David>soon as next week. You didn't get this from me.)

        5. The joke is David Redstone told Alex, and the company Alex works for (Eaton) the most outrageous nonsense, and Alex insists it was taken seriously. "If David and I were thoroughly off, so were people at much more senior positions in our company," Alex wrote. And yet:

        --- Alex seems oblivious to the long Medis history of scam -- of promising products and even claiming they were being sold, and yet the company NEVER reported revenue.

        --- Redstone tried to use Alex to get Eaton interested in using Medis technology for a 1kw system for the home. David wrote: "I think that if you [Eaton] went to Medis with a proposal to jointly develop a product like a ~1 kw UPS system for home office/small office/ residential markets, then the relationship would move forward very rapidly."

        But Alex should have laughed at that. Medis never had anything with any real power, and for good reason. Even CEO Bob Lifton admitted Medis technology "does not scale" and couldn't (even in Medis fantasyland) be made large enough to run an automobile or house appliances.

        5. In the emails that Alex provided David Redstone reveals himself repeated to lie about Medis -- admitting anxiety over the lack of sales, admitting the Medis product is stupid, admitting the orientation problem was a barrier to sales (something Tilyou pointed out many years ago, and David denied ever since) and even admitting Medis' Gennadhi lied about what Medis junk could do (and meanwhile David was urging the suckers to buy Medis shares -- and "now is the time!" he wrote).

        Gennadhi got rich (Redstone complained). HINT: because Gennadhi didn't fail, he did his job perfectly: help pump Medis for 15 years.

        Medis was a scam and Redstone was its monkey on a string, soliciting pennies from the suckers in return for inside information that consisted of bigger lies than Medis was willing to put into SEC information.

        So in the end, Alex just provided more evidence that David Redstone was a crook, and in the service of crooks.

      • Redstone held himself out as an expert when anyone who had passed high school physics could figure out that the Powerpack was no better than 2 D cells.

        Sorry, your defense of Redstone does not flush. He was in on the con and used his position of influence to perpetrate the con on others.

      • 0. I have known David on a professional basis since 2006

        I knew him since 2002 as a vicious defaming adversary.

        Rarely in the history of commerce has a scam been more obvious and comical than Medis. It claimed a cancer cure (which the CEO and President independently later admitted they KNEW not only didn't work -- it's fundamental principles were in doubt so no amount of tweaking could fix it). It claimed a technology to levitate trains, another to replace automobile engines, 500% better conductive polymers, an anti-cancer vaccine (in an advanced state).... and dozens of other unlikely things... and you think there's ANY chance it could have been sincere?

        I proved many times that David knowingly lied to lead on suckers to buy Medis.

        1. David touted the ASE deal as the largest fuel cell order in history. Later he admitted it was a "misguided tactic" to spur real orders. So he KNEW it was a lie. In reality, it was a successful tactic to sucker new investors.

        2. David believed very strongly in the technology

        Nonsense. David was dumb, but not*that* dumb. He knew what Medis promised (a fuel cell that could REPLACE batteries, and use tiny $1 liquid charge packs) because had reported it since 2000. In the end, Medis delivered junk, and David just lied -- touting a picture (by him) of the number AA batteries he claimed the power pack could replace even after real powerpacks were tested and proven useless.

        3. The powerpacks leaked and people were injured by them. David knew about the leaks, and lied about them. That is UGLY.

        4. David was a shameless slanderer. I *saw* the powerpacks didn't work -- a claimed "demo" in New York they didn't make cell phones "charge" light come on. David was there too, and he saw too -- but he claimed I lied until others had the balls to back up my story.

        5. and he kept insulting / alienating people

        A time-tested con-man method to deflect attention from crimes.

        6. David kept buying Medis stock until it was a penny-stock

        You are a sucker. David just wasn't THAT dumb.

        7. not least his personal fury about being misled by Medis management

        You don't "get it." David was *in* on the scam -- they flattered him, they gave him corrupt contacts at Forbes and BusinessWeek to help pump Medis. But they didn't respect him -- he was just a tool, and in the end they abandoned him. Sure, he hated them -- but not because they "mismanaged Medis." He thought they mismanaged him.

        8. wish you would have called on family or friends to discuss your desperation

        Ah, but he couldn't come clean -- his secret was too big. He was one of the crooks himself.

        9. the highlight of each year being his trip to the Dominican Republic

        DUH a stone-holiday with underage hookers does not make David more sympathetic in my book.

      • 1 Reply to paolo.tron
      • Small time defense lawyer becomes small time player in a $400 million stock scam, and in the end the money he made didn't make up for the fact his fellow criminals abandoned him, along with most of the pigeon investors he worked so stubbornly to fleece.

        David Redstone hurt many people, and was rude and defamatory in the process. He NEVER repented -- continuing to the end and past the end that he was right all long. Just as I predicted, he led the MDTL lambs to slaughter just as he led the MHTX lambs before them.

        The world is a kinder and more honest place -- and a smarter place -- with David Redstone's passing. He didn't even have the balls to turn himself in, or at least to confess on his way out.

        Truely, a grade A schmuck. We may never see his like again -- G_d willing!

        Tilyou

    • Really embarrassing suicide.

      He knew he was a fraud -- all those shareholders he suckered, and all those people he defamed in furtherance of the Medis scam.

      I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner.

    • rolls@ymail.com rolls Jan 3, 2011 4:51 PM Flag

      Where did you find that????

 
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