% | $
Quotes you view appear here for quick access.

Petróleo Brasileiro S.A. - Petrobras Message Board

  • docjoe999 docjoe999 Sep 13, 2011 8:15 PM Flag

    Obama's jobs plan

    is another example of "that awful smell you sense is not crap but caviar."

    Leave it to Zero Hedge to blow holes in the Obama plan. The goal of the job plan was to raise GDP by 2%.

    See the link:

    My personal favorite was this comment,

    "1) $447 billion / 330 million = $1,354 per PERSON in the US. Thus, a family of four's portion of this wonderful plan is about $5,400.

    2) $447 billion / $14.3 trillion = 3.1%. If all this money is spent, it would provide that much 'stimulus' to the economy. The funniest part about this calculation is Mark Zandi came out and said he predicted the bill would provide 2% growth. How's that for a Keynesian multiplier effect??"

    That is why I think anyone looking at the government for help here is foolish. I think Perry beats Obama in 2012 and nothing changes just like it did with Obama and Bush. My mother is a HUGE Obama supporter and when I asked her what was different with Obama than Bush, she said, "He got health care passed."

    What was important in that statement is what was NOT there: did he make healthcare better? And the answer is we don't know, but most guess things with health care are going to get worse not better.

    The reason pols are worthless with this economy is the things that they could do to improve the jobs situation are politically unpopular. Let's go with jobs and health again. Why is it that employers are responsible for providing health care for their employees? Whose brilliant idea was that? I guarantee you that employers have little clue what happens in 2014 with their employees and Obamacare. If polled, I bet 9 out of 10 would say things will be worse with Obamacare, so they are not going to hire more employees out of fear.

    The other Mish has been all over, and that is Beacon David laws. When you have a federal project, Beacon Davis dictates to contractors minimum wages for employees. So if you could hire find two brick layers at $15 an hour, but you are told that you HAVE to pay one $30 an hour, you only can hire the one. So we pay an inflated wage for one and unemployment for the other. Beacon Davis is why the stimulus package has been suck a joke at making a dent in unemployment.

    So we are left with pols who do the only thing they know how to do: hand out money. Bush did it with his $300 to $1200 tax rebate (remember that?), and Obama has taken it to a new level with his stimulus and this jobs bill.

    To repeat, the reason Texas has a strong economy is we don't pay legislators much and we keep them out of session as much as possible. The things Perry has touched that have affected me: the Texas insurance commission and medical board have been unmitigated disasters. People worried that Perry is another Bush shouldn't be because Perry is way, way more corrupt than Bush.

    Unfortunately, I think the economy is going to have to blow up before these unpopular but necessary changes actually come into being.

    SortNewest  |  Oldest  |  Most Replied Expand all replies
    • "All that *hostile to business* stuff is just politics."

      I hope you are right about that. You probably are.

      I'm not totally against regulation. I agree that some controls should be put in place. Bush and co. messed with did these newer ETF's. I'm not sure we can reverse all this. It's hard to go backwards. All the HFT going on etc. I don't know how we can stop "The Boston Shuffler", "The Carnival", and other algo's from dominating the market. I don't really know if it matters. I think the value oriented investor still does ok since most of these algo are just trend followers.

      Before you knock Cramer too much, I think we should credit him with some good deeds. At least he tries to help the small investor imho.

    • I never suggested we shoot the rich, or even interfere with them making money... just that we put a stiff tax on their unproductive toys.

      Businesses are not decamping for China b/c the US is unfriendly. They are leaving in search of lower costs and faster growth. And now with 15% of Americans living below the poverty line, who can afford their stuff here anyway... its a vicious circle broken -if at all - by more good jobs.

      All that *hostile to business* stuff is just politics. Our current problems (especially the problems in the financial system)are not due to too much regulation, they are due to too little. Regulation is not the cause of our lost competitiveness, cheap labor in Asia is.

    • Ok Musk, we can agree on the retro fit idea. I'm in on that.

      My only point is that even though big businesses get a bad rap from politicians, they do employee people. When politicians constantly threaten business it shouldn't be a surprise when they take their business offshore to Singapore, etc.

      I can understand how and why people are upset. We all are upset. This article sums it up very well:

      Chris Whalen sums up class warfare: "You go shoot the rich and see what you have the next day...."

    • You hit the nail on the head: Cramer is a carny barker and a clown. This summs it up quite well: *I saw Jim Cramer drink some fracking fluid when he was in North Dakota. From the expression on his face, it looked like it tasted pretty good...*

      IMO: Oil companies do not deserve, and certainly do not need, any more welfare than anyone else. That goes for NG companies, too.

      I would like to see the cost of NG retro-fit kits for cars in America decline to around $3000... installed. That would help a great deal. If deregulation can accomplish that, I am all for it!

    • I saw Jim Cramer drink some fracking fluid when he was in North Dakota. From the expression on his face, it looked like it tasted pretty good lol. I have come to like Cramer over time even though he is very "jumpy".

      My point is that here is Cramer, a democrat, taking a stand. I just fed up with Obama talking about taxing those "evil" oil companies that make "so much money"

      A former employer of mine summed it up pretty well over 20 years ago when he asked me: "When was the last time a poor person gave you a job?" That question changed the way I thought from that day forward. The irony is that today someone could reply by stating that the government gave them a job.

    • Jac, I think you did not read the article.

      You say: *Haliburton has a new fracking solution that is eco friendly.*

      But the company says: *it was looking to develop a greener process to coax natural gas out of shale formations...
      looking at fracking fluids that were considered safer for the environment.

      I thought this was a tasty quote, too: "Who can argue against these chemicals if they go into our food every day?" he asked.


    • Easing of regulation. The whole fracking issue. Haliburton has a new fracking solution that is eco friendly.

    • Here is where I was wrong: The bail-out actually started in the final days of a republican administration and the democrats caught the pass and ran the ball into the end-zone.

      Lets just go back to being pro-business and let unregulated banks jeopardize our future. Again. Lets let the auto industry bury itself. Again. Maybe we can let the NG companies poison the water, too. That, at least, would be something new. I mean, toxic waste never killed anybody. Right? The future aint so bright, anyway, so what the heck. Right?

      The US political/economy is Jonestown. Drink the pro-business kool-aid and watch the rich get richer - and pay less taxes -- while everybody else suffers the effects of un-restrained greed. You do not have to be Karl Marx to comprehend the unsustainability of a system which consumes itself rather than sustaining itself.

    • Jac: The administration doesnt need to do anything about NG; We are DROWNING in the stuff. And the industry certainly does not need corporate welfare to become a viable alternative to oil b/c it ALREADY IS viable and economical.

      As far as NG as an alt energy source for cars, etc... The private sector has and will do what needs to be done. Municipalities and fleets are already converting b/c of the economics. Just look at the stock of WPRT or read a press release from CLNE... they do not need our help. Maybe they could use some clarification or easing of regulation, but that is it.

    • America is the greatest country in the world... so help me change it
      - Barrack Obama

      This guy wants us to pass a bill "tomorrow" without even reading it... Hmmmm, that sounds like a great idea. Obama playing the used car salesman role... Hey sign up today, don't wait until tomorrow, I'll beef up this deal for everyone if you JUST SIGN TODAY!

      So who benefits?
      Unionized teachers
      Unionized construction workers
      our "crumbling" schools
      our "crumbling" roads and bridges

      Is that really why our economy is suffering? Because we don't have enough teachers? Wasn't it hard like hell to fire the bad ones in the first place? The ones that got fired in my city were the worst of the worst, sex offenders, one teacher was awol for 2 months, teachers that threatened the kids... Then when it was determined that it was unfair that these teachers were fired they sued seeking 2 years of back pay and their jobs back. Is that what we need, to hire these people back? We need market forces in schools like pay being tied to performance not re-hiring laid off teachers.

      Putting solar panels on schools is the reason why our economy isn't moving? How about roads and bridges? Obama practically admitted the "shovel ready" thing was a joke and that he just wasted 800 billion so now he wants 450 billion more?

      I mean the Bush deficits were huge and they were in the 400 billion range. Now Obama is running trillion dollar deficits and wasting 800 bil and 450 bil in one foul swoop. Do you even realize how much money that is?

      This is one last chance to give two of his donation groups money. Unionized teachers, unionized construction workers and he wants this bill passed before you can read it or think about it because that's a sales technique to get your way.

      Our best shot is not Perry but another Texan, Dr. Ron Paul. I've seen nothing but the MSM blackballing him and slandering him. He beat Romney in the Iowa straw poll and barley lost to Bachman and wasn't even mentioned in the articles. Just today Yahoo had a front page story with Paul's picture on it saying people cheered letting patients die. That was NOT Ron Paul's position and in a crowded room of people one person cheered and they write a misleading story about it? That's what we've come to? One thing the internet is going to erode away is big media and that's something we can all be thankful for. People that write stories like the one I read today should be dis-barred from writing stories for the public.

      • 2 Replies to waddawhat2002
      • "This guy wants us to pass a bill "tomorrow" without even reading it."

        If it is bad for this to happen when doling pork during a recession. it is far, far worse to pass a bill without reading it when it is messing with our civil rights like the Patriot Act - which was voted on before anyone had a chance to read it. (Recall the Russ Feingold was the ONLY vote in the Senate against it! Way-to-go, Russ.) But the truth of the matter is that few significant bills get read before they are voted on. I think the famous GATT bill was 23,000 pages, amidst which were juicy incentives (like auctionable RF bandwidth) to major media companies - probably for their assistance with the task of not reading it.

        RON PAUL is indeed our best hope. But the body politic is so utterly cancerous, and Paul so utterly toxic to it, that the establishment will do anything to keep him from winning either the nomination or the election. If they cannot stop him by other means, they might harm him. (God forbid... to the 23rd power.) Which brings us back to the Mars Attacks scenario, only this time, in addition to Neocons, they target election fraudsters, and establishment hitmen.

      • I like Dr. Paul also, and under his leadership we could have potential for great change. On the other hand, I have come to realize the our lawmakers much be willing to work together to promote change. I'm not sure that Dr. Paul would be able to promote policies that Dems or Republicans might buy into. Unfortunately Dr. Paul is un-electable as a US president. As much as I buy into most of his ideas, his policies are a bit to extreme for the US mainstream. His beliefs on the military, the gold standard, small government and legalizing drugs are enough to blow him outta the race. Not to mention he squeaks when he talks, has a small build, and looks like mouse. Don't get me wrong, I can see past through his physical traits. I also am not foolish enough to believe that I will not likely find a presidential candidate that I will agree with on all counts. If I had my choice, Ron Paul would win the next election.... but it won't ever happen... Americans are too dumb to vote for Paul !
        One more factor, Dr. Paul will not gain enough financial support to run a good campaign, nor will he spend enough of his own money. In today's world, you need to spend some bucks to win a Prez race.

        As much as Newt is a sharp guy, and has good qualifications ... I never liked him. He is simply the a politician that I don't trust.

        Honestly, I don't know enough about Rick Perry to make a decision about him. That said, at this point, I prefer Herman Cain over Gov. Perry.

        I think Romney has the best chance for a Republican win in 2012. Romney has the money, the experience, the look, and is liberal enough to win some Democrat votes. Not my fav... but the best chance for win. I'm too practical to vote for a candidate such as Paul that has no chance.
        At this point, I'll settle for any of them to win.... NO more Obama-nation please.

    • View More Messages
7.18+0.40(+5.90%)Jun 29 4:01 PMEDT