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  • char1man char1man Feb 22, 2006 1:10 PM Flag

    cheney was drunk

    news flash says cia says cheney had been drinking all day and was stumbling drunk when he shot his buddy

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    • >2. You claimed that the fire could not be stoichiometric, I beg to differ. Stoichiometric is a fuel-air ratio (.068 for Jet-A), and is experienced in prodigious quantities in all turbulent diffusion flames. In fact, this fire actually burned fuel rich (>.068) at first, as shown by the black smoke billowing out. My guess is that fuel was virually everywhere in that building, and that vaporized fuel was abundant due to the heat of the fire. So, my guess is that this fire was VERY HOT.

      Don't you need to make up your mind here? If it was fuel rich (obviously, it was), it wasn't stoichiometric. Even if we disagree at to the temperature, would you argue that large quantities of concrete were subjected to extremely high temps?

      >3. A proper heat transfer analysis could be done to determine the flow of heat through the building in the steel reinforcement inside and outside of the concrete. This would tell what the concrete temperature distribution was. I'm sure the concrete temperatures on the high floors were very high.


      We could make guesses and at least a high and low range. Well, people who know than I do could, anyway.


      >I don't know what the thermal conductivity of concrete is,

      Considerably lower than your average street bum. That's why they put masonry firewalls in buildings.


      >and what the properties at temperature are (if it is easily pulverized).

      Well, go ahead and laugh but try just throwing a chunk in the fireplace. It ain't exacly science but it gets you in the ball park. I've seen concrete after a fire but never all concrete after all fires. You get spalling but no loss of structural integrity. You sure as hell don't get pulverized concrete.

      >just asking a question that could be answered by a proper analysis. If this analysis was not done, it should be IMO.

      As am I... and that's back to where I started. It is the worst engineering disaster in the history of the US. The evidence was immediately carted off. Not only was no analysis done (I mean science and engineering, not armchair speculation to reach a predetermined conclusion), none can ever be done.

    • >OK, my bad. You are not the typical USELESS mb poster.

      You weren't the first to jump to that conclusion... check with "smithbaltimore" about 'joe six pack' contrarian indicators. It may be pure vanity but I like to think that I am the atypical USELESS message board poster.


      >As a person with a major in the physical sciences, I assume that you have humility.

      If you were me, on message board, you'd find humility a tough row to hoe as I do. You are correct in essence. I realized early on that I could never know everything.

      >Most people go through life not realizing that you can describe the physical world with mathematics.

      I would say that was a typical, if well intentioned, mistake. You can NEVER describe the physical world with mathematics. That's my story and I'm sticking with it. You can model it but a model is always just that. A model answers the question: "What does this model tell me?" I digress.

      >But they do like their palm pilot and cell phone. LOL. They also don't have a clue how hard the subject matter is.

      For sure they can't tell you why photons only interfere in the experiment with two slits just when you aren't looking.

      >Where I work we have a saying: Fluid mechanics is humbling, and combustion is downright insulting.

      Back when I used to work, we had a saying.... "Always shit on company time." It could have been a whole nother zeitgeist.

      >So, back to the WTC. My main point was that a proper analysis could be done on the situation:


      You are no fun anymore.


      >1. What is the bond strength of concrete when at high temperature? I have heard you say that it has equivalent strength after it cools after exposure to fire. Stands to reason that basic chemistry says the molecules will be in a higher energy state when hot and the bonds potentially weaker.


      Concrete is not much damaged by fire. That's my experience and something you could look up. It is insignifican. We can disagree about the exact temp reached but it would be hard to argue that even an extreme temperature would have been quite localized. Most of the concrete was not subjected to any extreme temperature, much less 1000F, yet ALL of the concrete was pulverized.

    • what a suck job

    • <I'm not claiming to be an expert. I was a physics major and know a little of this and that.>

      OK, my bad. You are not the typical USELESS mb poster. As a person with a major in the physical sciences, I assume that you have humility. Most people go through life not realizing that you can describe the physical world with mathematics. But they do like their palm pilot and cell phone. LOL. They also don't have a clue how hard the subject matter is. Where I work we have a saying: Fluid mechanics is humbling, and combustion is downright insulting. So, back to the WTC. My main point was that a proper analysis could be done on the situation:

      1. What is the bond strength of concrete when at high temperature? I have heard you say that it has equivalent strength after it cools after exposure to fire. Stands to reason that basic chemistry says the molecules will be in a higher energy state when hot and the bonds potentially weaker.
      2. You claimed that the fire could not be stoichiometric, I beg to differ. Stoichiometric is a fuel-air ratio (.068 for Jet-A), and is experienced in prodigious quantities in all turbulent diffusion flames. In fact, this fire actually burned fuel rich (>.068) at first, as shown by the black smoke billowing out. My guess is that fuel was virually everywhere in that building, and that vaporized fuel was abundant due to the heat of the fire. So, my guess is that this fire was VERY HOT.
      3. A proper heat transfer analysis could be done to determine the flow of heat through the building in the steel reinforcement inside and outside of the concrete. This would tell what the concrete temperature distribution was. I'm sure the concrete temperatures on the high floors were very high.

      I don't know what the thermal conductivity of concrete is, and what the properties at temperature are (if it is easily pulverized). So I am not offering a concrete (pun intended) theory here, just asking a question that could be answered by a proper analysis. If this analysis was not done, it should be IMO.

    • "Imagine a process in which we convert the inorganic components of the municipal solid waste in architectural tiles and construction bricks, at the same time we convert all the organic contents of the waste into Synthesis gas, (basically a mix of H2 + CO, almost a green fuel) and in addition we generate electrical power. Furthermore, could we have a system that doesn't generate ashes, and doesn't pollute the air, the water nor the soil, as incineration does? The answer is yes. The plasma torches that operate at very high temperatures (between 5,000�C and 100,000�C) can process all kinds of waste: municipal solid, toxic, medical, biohazard, industrial and nuclear waste at atmospheric pressure. Effectively, the inorganic waste is vitrified in solid-like glass materials that are used to manufacture aggregates for the construction industry (Magmavication process) and the organic materials (plastics, paper, oil, bio-materials, etc.) are converted into Syngas with caloric value, fuel that is used on the Heavy-duty advanced gas turbines for the generation of electrical power (Gasification process). No ashes are produced because at more than 5,000�C, all the organic molecules are disintegrated and only the mix of H2 + CO remains at high temperature."
      http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0103-97332004000800015&script=sci_arttext&t
      lng=en


      You can also look it up under "Plasma gasification"

      Looks like different companies are running with different versions..

      Regards.

    • "look it up."


      Your search - You cook the garbage at a very high heat in an inclosed system capturing the gases and harvesting the energy..; appatently it produces more energy than it is fed to; it is called plasma something - did not match any documents.

    • You can.. You cook the garbage at a very high heat in an inclosed system capturing the gases and harvesting the energy..; appatently it produces more energy than it is fed to; it is called plasma something... look it up.

      Regards.

    • You don't really believe all the bull shit coming from you own mouth do you?

      LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL


      Well Poker, first off it is coming off my key board...not from my mouth. Second: I certainly want to believe 19 sandniggerss did this whole thing withoiut the mossad evesdropping on Atta and his gang. BUTTTTT , most know atta was under surveilance.....even here in the US.

      Many things don't add up.

      The mossad could have handled this like they handled the Beruit Bombings...."just let it happen"......hopefully you aren't so gullible as to NOT know how the underbelly of israels Mossad works??????

      """Israeli firms 'ran vast spy ring'

      Many of Israel's largest companies are based in Tel Aviv
      Police in Israel say they have uncovered a huge industrial spying ring which used computer viruses to probe the systems of many major companies.
      At least 15 Israeli firms have been implicated in the espionage plot, with 18 people arrested in Israel and two more held by British police.

      Among those under suspicion are major Israeli telecoms and media companies. """"


      Try not to be tooo naive....israel was estatic the USA was about to start hating Sandniggers as much as they did.....our coffers are much bigger....we can wage war...and kill israels enenmies with American Blood, using American Dollars.

      Please don't bo stupid.

      I'm not saying I know the details about who, or how the 9-11 terrorists were allowed to slip through....but I don't doubt they were allowed, assisted in several ways....and our Country was not warned by this grave intel breach.

      I happen to have lost trust in many politicians in charge.....and in retrospect...they sure pulled the wool over my eyes....obviously you haven't pulled the wool off yours yet.

    • You don't really believe all the bull shit coming from you own mouth do you?

      LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL


      Well Poker, first off it is coming off my key board...not from my mouth. Second: I certainly want to believe 19 sandniggerss did this whole thing withoiut the mossad evesdropping on Atta and his gang. BUTTTTT , most know Atta was released from an israeli jail and was under surveilance.....even here in the US.

      Many things don't add up.

      The mossad could have handled this like they handled the Beruit Bombings...."just let it happen"......hopefully you aren't so gullible as to NOT know how the underbelly of israels Mossad works??????

      """Israeli firms 'ran vast spy ring'

      Many of Israel's largest companies are based in Tel Aviv
      Police in Israel say they have uncovered a huge industrial spying ring which used computer viruses to probe the systems of many major companies.
      At least 15 Israeli firms have been implicated in the espionage plot, with 18 people arrested in Israel and two more held by British police.

      Among those under suspicion are major Israeli telecoms and media companies. """"


      Try not to be tooo naive....israel was estatic the USA was about to start hating Sandniggers as much as they did.....our coffers are much bigger....we can wage war...and kill israels enenmies with American Blood, using American Dollars.

      Please don't bo stupid.

      I'm not saying I know the details about who, or how the 9-11 terrorists were allowed to slip through....but I don't doubt they were allowed, assisted in several ways....and our Country was not warned by this grave intel breach.

      I happen to have lost trust in many politicians in charge.....and in retrospect...they sure pulled the wool over my eyes....obviously you haven't pulled the wool off yours yet.

    • if you can burn garbage in a zero oxygen enviroment we can be huge..

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