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  • pebble_perfect pebble_perfect Dec 20, 2007 8:47 AM Flag

    a lesson for G-U-T-L-E-S-S


    (an excerpt from a commentary by ben stein)

    My confession:

    I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are: Christmas trees.

    It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, 'Merry Christmas' to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu. If people want a cr�che, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away .<<

    so, G-U-T-L-E-S-S, take YOUR "sensitivity" and SHOVE IT.

    oh btw,


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    • You are most 'LARGELY' correct!!! {Are you kidding? Jesus was the heir to the Davidic crown and you are saying he lived in the equivalent of an insignificant village, which no one knew about or could find until recently? What a stretch to fit your beliefs to historical facts. It does not make sense, historically. If anything your reply proves my point.
      FYI the word Nazareth is actually derived from the Hebrew word, "nozrim" from the description "Nazrie ha-Brit" or keepers of the covenant, a reference to the Essene community at Qumran. Facts are stubborn things for religious people sometimes. }}}}

      Why do you think that the Pharisee said, "Nothing good ever came from the Nazarene aka northern Essene aka Nazareth?
      Mt Carmel was revered even by the ancient Egyptians as the holiest place on all the earth. At the base of Mt Carmel was the home of the Teacher of Righteousness.
      It was forbidden to be on Mt Carmel in the night time, thus adherents lived at the base in a place that became known as Nazareth�the distance between the ancient Essene communities base at what is left of old Nazareth is a 12 minute jog�is that close or what?...two miles maximum total distance between the dig of the city and the dig of the Essene community.

      Mt Carmel was the home of Israel�s greatest prophets! Why did the Pharisee hate the Northern Essene aka Nazarene? If it was so insignificant why bother mention that only the most horrible things come from there???�easy answer�the Pharisee were 95% Idumeans�.rabbis installed after the killing of the High Priests of Israel by Herod�the Essene held what they viewed as the ancient true religion of Israel and the Pharisee had a newly introduced religion brought from Babylon and Edom�they hated each other! The biggest mistake the historical students make when studying Israel is not understanding that the Temple was taken over in a coup d'�tat orchestrated by foreign Idumean priests and Herod. What was left of Israel�s priest princes fled to the safety of what eventually became the Essene communities. There were more than two Essene communities but the two main ones we study are the southern and northern�it should be noted that these two communities varied even among themselves as to the true nature and ancient beliefs�the most revealing fact that testifies to the Essene being the repository for the ancient Israelite Dead Sea Scrolls�yet we can not find a single page of the old scrolls preserved by the Idumean� the ancient Israelites saw this as a new religion and one that taught heresy.

      It is most important when studying these days to grasp that Israel had a number competing religions and sects by the days of Herod. Treachery and murder supplanted the prevailing religion with a new one that we now call Judaism. It is an interesting debate as to which religion is older to Israel�Essene, Christianity or Judaism�Essene is the certain winner but which is number two depends on one�s definitions. Judaism is old in that it has ancient Idumean roots. Christianity, if one actually were to believe the adherents of Christianity can be argued as the oldest religion on earth�tripped everyone out there did I? That is an esoteric debate for another time.

      It is not necessary that one believe one or another of these religions to understand these points. This is not preaching or an attempt to convince anyone of the "right" religion-to the contrary! This is simply a study of the basis and roots and history of each of the religions in a clinical, historical, cold fact, non-spiritual, point-of-view. It is a study of what these religions believed and where they came from.

      Everyone brings their many paradigms to this study and that leds to bad comprehension of the links. Shhhh! Big Secret!!!....but of course we are all over that today and no politician would utilize religion in an election...........or would they?

    • Are you kidding? Jesus was the heir to the Davidic crown and you are saying he lived in the equivalent of an insignificant village, which no one knew about or could find until recently? What a stretch t ofit your beliefs to historical facts. It does not make sense, historically. If anything your reply proves my point.
      FYI the word Nazareth is actually derived from the Hebrew word, "nozrim" from the description "Nazrie ha-Brit" or keepers of the covenant, a reference to the Essene community at Qumran. Facts are stubborn things for religious people sometimes.

    • And the torturing and sacraficing of children. It happened. and it is believed to have happened even up to the 1800s. It was part of the culture. It is in the bible. Read Jeremiah 32:35. This is just one place, just to prove a point that they sacraficed children. I do not believe that even the orthodox do it now or have done it in a long time.

    • <<I am a God-FEARING person and want to insure that when I'm in front of my Maker on Judgment Day, I have the credentials to take the next step.>>

      Just show Him your "superior methods".

    • You are exactly correct...the general...were not vegetarians...but that didn't stop some of the Pharisees from telling exactly that to the Romans...These Romans were those that were just working out this new religion we now call Roman Catholic...we told the new Christians that this vegetarianism was one of the Essene fact, it is recorded, to the utter embarrassment of the current Catholic historians, that some key Jewish Pharisee �duped� them into slaughtering almost all the Essene community of the Mt Carmel area�these are the people also known as Northern Essene (various translations of that word include Nazarene) which is separate from the Southern Essene community which was/is associated with John the Baptist and Qumran.

      The Jerusalem brotherhood of that day had been trying to rid itself of the Northern Israelites in Mt Carmel for some 400 years�.the new Roman Christian Army did it for them in just one of the early Jewish/Israelite Holocausts, but it was based on heresy allegations made by leaders of our own people. The early Christians had little knowledge of the Israelite religions and wrongly assumed that the descendents of the temple leaders�that were placed their by Herod after he slaughtered the actual Israelite Priests�.were giving them faithful testimony�.when if fact�.they were just finishing the job that Herod could not do in his lifetime�Israel always had numerous religious sects that coexisted in throughout much of history�but in the final days the Babylonian sect got top hand�we Israelites should realize that we ourselves have a bloody history of intolerance�there is no such thing as ONE Israelite religion and if it ever existed�it was in the days of Moses and the earlier days of the Patriararchs and not since that time�.our current reliance on the Talmud is largely due to the destruction of the earlier Temple and its library�today modern Archeologists and historians are providing us with much more information�as always is true��the victors wrote the new history�.but they couldn�t hide the reality of the old history forever�.but we have done a fairly good job of covering up our crimes and duping the Christians into taking the fall�.None of us have clean hands in this�.but this is not a story of blame or a season for blame, but it should be a great 'lesson in tolerance'-Christians-Jews-Israelites-Islam-and all others- a message for all faiths�.but tolerance means allowing ALL others the grace to enjoy and practice their holidays�.so Merry Christmas to all!!!!!!!!! We should all be so lucky as to practice tolerance and understanding!

      Let's make a pledge in the New Year to tolerate other opinions and other religions and wish them all well so long as they wish the same on us....Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      But tolerance does not mean stopping them from shouting Merry Christmas or the boys of South Park shouting out from celebrating a "Hanukkah Harry", a very odd Jesus and whatever else all at once! Hidey-Ho! The Christmas poo! Grow a sense of humor at the same time....gee whiz!!!!!!

      If cartoons could draw a farcical picture of Mohammed we would all be better off!! But somehow that is inappropriate, intolerant, racist and taboo! Oh Well!!!

      Merry Christmas!!! to all

    • Well in some ways some of the history of the 10 Northern Tribes stopped but in others ways it did not. The "Druze religion" (Casey Kasem top 40 is Druze) are from part of the 10 Northern Israelite Tribes...they hate the term Jews as they do not practice Judaism...but modern Israel classifies them as Jews (ethnically)�Druze have not married outside of their own tribe in over 1600 years and trace their foundations to the Northern Israelite tribe of Zebulon�.Spain or the Ebrew (aka Iberian aka Hebrew) Peninsula was one of the first big populations even before the first Diaspora and more so after�Jonah was fleeing to his relatives in Spain when swallowed by the fish (whale to some)�Samarians are part of Northern Israel and are recognized as such�the Essenes of Northern Israel were largely from the tribes of Northern Israel and lived around Nazareth-Mt.Carmel�Jewish Pharisee convinced the new Roman Catholic church that they were heretics because�for one thing�they were vegetarians�imagine that?...getting killed for being vegetarian�so they asked Rome to kill them and Rome complied and slaughtered most of the Essene�we forget that ancient Israel had many different religions sects and we Israelites (Jews) were great at getting others to kill our brothers whenever we couldn�t do the job ourselves�in fact the early Roman Catholic Church was almost �overwhelmed� by Israelite or Jewish Pharisee converts that became key parts of the new church�some even became famous Catholic Bishops and set out the beliefs and basic tenants of the early Christian Catholic version of the Christian church�which was not by the way the only version of Christianity at the time�but with the ruthless guidance of our brothers it got pretty popular�so before we go around condemning Christians�we need to understand history and our own hand in killing Israelites and Jews and Samarians and Essene and Druze�our own history is a compelling story of treachery�.plus modern Judaism was hardly our only religion historically!!!!!!!!!!!

      So I say again�modern Christians have done more for Israelites than Israelites have done for themselves�.so if they want to practice Christmas and celebrate their holiday whenever and however�more power to them�.they aren�t the enemy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Merry Christmas!!!! Israelites �[of all types]� and Jews �[of all types]� Muslims �[of all types]�, Buddhists �[of all types]� and many other religions owe a great deal to these tolerant Christians�..They are, on whole, much better to us than we are to our own brothers and cousins�get over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And tell them Merry Christmas because I am betting that most of them wish you well on Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Sukkoth and Hanukkah! {{{And if they wanted to pick us apart like you pick them apart Hanukkah is actually from the Babylonian Talmud and may not be considered Israelite at all, yet we celebrate the miracle of the oil�and I am into that!}}} It is all about beliefs and I am into supporting people of faith�particularly ones that share a particularly benevolent faith to our people!!!! So Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!!!! By the way let me add that over seven generations in America�our families many businesses and stores did quite well at Christmas times�.our ladies from the Jewish league made good money wrapping Christmas presents at the malls�I think this is a case of this generation of Israelites getting Dumb and Dumber!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We have a pretty good history of making our own miseries worse!!!!!!!!!!!! So Merry Christmas to all!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      I doubt that my family members buried in Jewish cemeteries are going to roll over in their graves because I wish all Christians around the world the very best this time of the year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • No, I never watch National Geographic as I live in a remote corner of Europe on the border with Russia and it is not available. I am not an expert on this stuff - just have read deeply on it as a layman. Christmas is hype and always has been. I like to debunk nonsense when I can and I like history. In any case you now know the real birthday of Jesus, his royal lineage, his internecine struggle to get the Jewish crown back for his family, his marriage and his children. He was a man with a mission but not the mission everyone is celebrating. Actually this version makes a helluva lot more sense than the traditional version.
      He was never anything but elite Jewish royalty, who managed to be appointed a priest as well as being the Davidic king to legitimize his quest. So, do not object when you get a card. Put the other stuff aside. Have a good laugh that they do not understand the background of what they are celebrating.

    • You would never know what point I was trying to make because all you know of Israelite history and our religion is the most superficial of facts. Most Christians know the story of Abraham, but it is not all the children of Abraham that are chosen�.in fact most are not�but you write, nay brag continuously, that you break the laws of Moses, you have no respect for women, which breaks Israelite law, you believe not in the ancient books and my guess is that you are much like many of my cousins and brethren in that you consider yourself a Jew, but you do little to follow or understand Israelite history or religion�I will not argue with you about religion�.because in my view you have none�I won�t debate Israelite history with you as you have demonstrated repeatedly that you know less than a child about our mutual history�.the Pharisee said to the one they called Christ�Aren�t we all children of Abraham?....they asked this because they knew it was a trick�.they were descendents of Abraham�.but they had no connection to Israel-Jacob�we continue to play these word games with our religion and the Christians never figure out we have conned them�.but in the end we are only conning ourselves�.learn your own faith�decide what that is�.learn your real history�.not the Hollywood version�.throughout history Christians have mostly been very good to the Israelites�.but many descendents of Abraham have crucified, performed holocaust on other cousins�.Israelites have been murdered by the millions by Abrahams descendents that have called themselves Jews�Herod was one that called himself a Jew and was�but he killed Israelites amass�we are often our own worst enemies�Christians have been the friend of the Israelite throughout most of history�and before you throw the Spanish Inquisition into the mix�you better read history�the Spanish Inquisition was a total failure until a Jewish �covert� was put in charge�and that is fact�.Love your faith�learn your faith�.learn your history�.respect the faith of others�.Merry Christmas�.thank Jehovah for the Christians!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!We would not have Israel today without them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • First I did not suggest that you become a Christian...I am not defending the Christian religion in any of its forms...I said let them have their religion and their holiday!...but you then jumped into a rant about how their religion is too obviously neither know your own religion or said you could save living a life with what you say are the right credentials "I am a God-FEARING person and want to insure that when I'm in front of my Maker on Judgment Day, I have the credentials to take the next step." Yet, your credentials as you post them on line wouldn't eve qualify you under Jewish law...on top of that you state you do not believe the Israelite religion and it basic history...which you have shown several times to be completely ignorant many Israelite brothers you neither know your own faith, your history or do you practice it....yet you get all up in the face "for religious reasons" (a religious reason you don't adhere to) and say NO to Christians saying Merry Christmas.......Merry Christamas.....were it not for Christians the world would not be free to practice many other religions....Your preverse modification of the Israelite religion doesn't stand up for other religions....we would not have modern Israel were it not for Christians!!!!!

      So I say Merry Christmas

    • You read me wrong, loser!

      It's the women who are disgusted & revolted by you!

      That's why you have to pay them & put a bag over your head so they'll touch you, but only if swathed in Latex & Nonoxynol Nine.

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