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  • echo2165 echo2165 Dec 30, 2012 10:12 AM Flag

    Grover's cliff...


    “Democrats said they had been told House Republicans might reject a deal until after Jan. 1, to avoid a vote to raise taxes before they had technically gone up, and then vote to cut taxes after they had risen.” (AP)

    Oh, that’s really mature. More Grover worship. Pathetic.

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    • jim.morris: the first two years of democratic control we went from losing over 800,000 jobs a month to gaining over 200,000 jobs a month--a 1 million job per month difference. In the three months prior to the budget and debt ceiling crises in summer 2011, we were adding about 250,000 jobs a month. Yes, Democrats are responsible for that.

    • m.swanger: I agree, but I'd prefer to see increases in divi & capital gains taxes offset with reductions in the payroll tax.

      Capital gains and dividends are not subject to payroll taxes. If you increase payroll taxes and extend them to high earners, it does not affect unearned income (divi & captial gains). So someone like Romney, who gets all his money from unearned income, would not be subject to the payroll tax but would just get the tax break on unearned income. High earners (e.g., doctors or small business owners) would have to pay the payroll tax but would get less benefit from cuts in divi or capital gains. We need to spend less effort propping up markets and more propping up the real economy.

      All in all, I think we have enough investment capital out there. It is time to incentivize work. As a sole proprietor, I can tell you the taxes on those earning more than $400,000 don't affect me at all, and they wouldn't have affected me at $250,000 either--I don't make that much and few small business owners do. However, the 2% payroll tax increase affects every dollar I earn. And it affects my subcontractors, which means I may be paying higher labor costs. So that means either I pull more money out of my business, or I spend less than I would otherwise, or I try to pass the cost up or down.

      In my opinion the fiscal cliff deal was a horrible deal. Obama should have had the cahooneys to let us go over.

    • ricky18201 Jan 4, 2013 11:27 AM Flag

      Witnessing the Republicans and the Democrats bicker over the U.S. debt is like watching two drunks argue over a bar bill on the Titanic.

    • Political grandstanding at its finest.

    • From The Foundation of Human Understanding.

      “Revolutionaries in government have created economic chaos, shortages in food and fuel, confiscatory taxation, a crisis in education, the threat of war, and other diversions to condition Americans for the “New World Order."

      The technique is as old as politics itself. It is the Hegelian Dialectic of bringing about change in a three-step process: Thesis, Antithesis and Synthesis.

      The first step (thesis) is to create a problem. The second step (antithesis) is to generate opposition to the problem (fear, panic and hysteria). The third step (synthesis) is to offer the solution to the problem created by step one: A change which would have been impossible to impose upon the people without the proper psychological conditioning achieved in stages one and two.

      Applying the Hegelian Dialectic, and irresistible financial influence, concealed change agents seek to dismantle social and political structures by which free men govern themselves — ancient landmarks erected at great cost in blood and treasure.

      Their objective is to emasculate sovereign states, merge nations under universal government, centralize economic powers, and control the world's people and resources.”

      This is precisely the method being used by Obama and his ‘crisis management’ type governing. Too many things have occurred during his term that had ‘to be resolved immediately’, including problems that Congress or others created decades ago and during the preceding recent months.

      This is what Obama has done with the ‘fiscal cliff’ situation. This could have been resolved logically and rationally months ago. Instead, he and at this direction, the Democrats have forced this into a ‘crisis’ situation so that the Hegelian principles could be used to find a solution.

      This is becoming his standard method of governing, create a crisis, build the crisis to even larger proportions, and then force his solution upon the self-created problem.

    • Not pathetic, just modern day politics.

      • 1 Reply to pinhighshot
      • Latest example:

        Huffpost (12/28/2012):
        "Obama Orders Pay Raise For Congress, Federal Workers, Joe Biden
        While Obama's order made no mention of merit for such a raise, HuffPost's Amanda Terkel reported on Friday that the 112th Congress is set to end the session as the most unproductive since the 1940s, with only 219 bills passed by the body becoming law".

        Yes, it is true their pay has been frozen for a number of years but that hasn't stopped out of control federal spending. In fact, I'm thinking they are getting the raise in recognition of record spending and a record high deficit level.


    • I'm thinking when we get really serious about addressing out of control spending, we can get serious about not increasing the taxes of everyone.

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