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Royce Value Trust, Inc. Common Message Board

  • rbgambler99 rbgambler99 Dec 4, 2008 3:42 PM Flag

    Why is this up??

    Totally contrary to the market....I just may buy some...everything I own is going down....

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    • Not superior intelligence, just facts driven comments. You still never owned the misinformation you opined upon.

    • Rather than continue to comment I'll acquiesce to your superior intelligence and market knowledge. I'm not interested in continuing to read your back handed personal attacks regarding my opinion on this stock. You are correct and I am wrong.....satisfied?

      The following comments are directed at RB and slowmotion...the first two posters on this thread. I assumed by the post that either were considering investing in this stock. My opinion as a long term holder who has reinvested dividends and has read all of the annual reports over the years is that RVT is not the fund it used to be. Initially RVT had a slow start but began outpacing it's peer group but there was a marked change after the sale of Royce to LM in 2001. At that time Royce was in his early 60's and my suspicion is that this sale allowed him to cash in and redirect at least some of his focus to other passions. I certainly don't hold that against him but I believe that's when RVT began to fall behind. If you want you can Google his name and you will see multiple real estate restoration projects that he is involved in large one is the Ocean House restoration project in RI.

      Anyway over the last two years the inferior return of RVT has become more pronounced and was also marked by Royce's sale of a material amount of his holdings in RVT...again I don't hold this against him but I do think it to be an indicator of his continued involvement and his outlook for RVT. So in summary I don't think RVT is a good investment even though it pains me as quite long to say that.

      If you have reviewed the stocks that make up RVT and like the makeup I would recommend that you consider the preferred shares. These are trading at a 20+% discount to face value and the yield is approximately 7%. Although the yield is below RVT's policy of paying out 9% annualized much of that is a return of capital and with the preferred you get a return on capital and the face value is actually above the market value today.

      If the market continues to falter or even flatten one could argue that RVT is essentially a liquidating fund's leveraged and not earning it's distribution policy so it's getting smaller every year.

      To some degree I'm taking my own advice and will not be reinvesting any dividends in the future but I am holding with the hope of the Royce funds return to a market leading position.

    • Here is a link to Royce's website, proving my point.

    • Then if you buy some won't this go down too?

      Don't worry its completely random, and I think I'm starting to see why. Lets say a person is dying from some organ malfunction, most of the time they'll just feel too weird to analyze it unless they are an emt or a doctor. They lack the tools to understand that they might be history, this is how most people view economies and civilizations. Some people are 'doctors' or have been through a near death experience, the rest are indoctrinated into a disney like view of reality and have no clue whats going on. Those folks are just looking for some pretty colors as clues to how their story will end - this is how markets 'work'. The bet then is , how mentally disabled and how indoctrinated a large enough percentage of the population is to get your money out.

      Stocks are worth par value, (a little less than the value of the paper they are printed on typically), the rest is belief, in a society based on ignorance (like ours) mythology is mostly irrational flights of fantasy (upticks) or irrational paranoia (downticks). The same goes for currency, national power, and economic 'theory'. Its an institutionalized pyramid scheme.

      • 1 Reply to slowmotionrampage
      • It's up because it lags the NAV for the fund and trades at a discount to the NAV. Prior to the selloff the NAV for the stocks held in RVT had moved the RVT price was catching up to the moves of Friday and Monday.

        I've held since the IPO in 86 and this is the largest discount to NAV I've ever seen. Many times it has traded at a premeium.

        Problem with this one is since Chuck Royce sold out to Legg Mason and quit actively managing the fund it's been a dog.....

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